From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Deniz Dogan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why Emacs should have a good web-browser Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:03:35 +0200 Message-ID: <7b501d5c0909121203n6beee5f2gc661068ae7789849@mail.gmail.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1252782259 20593 80.91.229.12 (12 Sep 2009 19:04:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:04:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: ferkiwi+a@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Sep 12 21:04:09 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MmXtH-0007ue-Kp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 21:04:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60211 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MmXtH-0001id-7K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:04:07 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MmXt7-0001b1-FS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:03:57 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MmXt6-0001aB-S5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:03:57 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=54889 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MmXt6-0001Zm-Lc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:03:56 -0400 Original-Received: from ey-out-1920.google.com ([74.125.78.148]:18531) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MmXt5-0002kE-Um for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 15:03:56 -0400 Original-Received: by ey-out-1920.google.com with SMTP id 3so673233eyh.34 for ; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 12:03:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=cD5BsLJlOx/UFdaLjHizFKXc9HvbNTzLwlCsjiBgwpE=; b=UEyf4OUrhZKpfgdfsY9TGCKeapmIHl0YrOCASjgkl93HH76z/psEGZfbgGemM6yand ru1qzKWpt0VpoFz9X9oDBCFG7PQCrCSohwX4IFnRz1b1JhbBfIQtRHa4Uz1JCgbzgz53 8VfMzCABQKwvv3Mk3t/+AyaT5a29DqOam316Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=SLsgNdvCQPJUWNYReLe30I/rynEcSY1TBT2Rt1vv+czidSjz7/Tae99RCRvowVsiJU +yWeqP0gVRZPYsFQglRA6HBRklK3X9vxAqbBms8/piMBmk+LlYS3I4And45cgE7kvBf8 uM3/gImfd4WLnW74BQ0kHM1a+U+P9kDzZH7+Q= Original-Received: by 10.211.155.11 with SMTP id h11mr1201336ebo.40.1252782235120; Sat, 12 Sep 2009 12:03:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:115242 Archived-At: 2009/7/8 Fernando : > Hello. > Sorry if this is not the right place, but I wanted to ask some > questions to the community and expose some arguments. > > First, I would like to know if you agree about the reasons for having > a web browser in Emacs (either as part of it or as an external lisp > package). > > 1) One of the main purposes of Emacs is programming. Web development, > css and JavaScript are emerging languages present a lot in the > internet since a long time and now they are even extending to the > desktop (gnome-shell, seed, adium themes...). Emacs has modes and > tools to edit on this languages, but the integration is not as good as > it could be if you had js and html interpreters integrated in Emacs > itself. > > 2) There are very few web browsers that are comfortable to use in a > keyboard-only interface. Emacs would be very good in this sense > because its keyboard navigation is very usable and as it's designed > for editing text, it will be perfect for all the form editing, comment > writing and all the editing related actions you have to do often in a > browser (editing wikipedia articles, etc). > > 3) Emacspeak =A0has turned Emacs into a very accessible environment for > the visual-impaired and it would offer =A0these people a highly > customizable interface to help them browse the web, along with the > keybindings. > > 4) Emacs since long time has been one of the greatest tools for an > operative system. During the Age Of The Usenet it was an good > newsreader. Now that the newsgroups have started to die slowly and the > HTTP protocol and Javascript are the kings of the big cloud Emacs > should adapt to it. > > 5) Browsers are turning into the next generation Emacs! they can > browse ftp, access IRC channels, check your mail, read pdf and other > things with embeded applications, now they can even play video/audio > as a core functionality, they are often used for editing text (web > forms, comments in blogs, etc)... there's even the whole "Google > Chrome OS" designed around a browser. Sooner or later they will be > able to edit code (there's even prototypes for this already) when this > happens Emacs has to compete or it will slowly die. Web browsers are > turning into the main program for the end/power-user in a PC, when > they reach Emacs in functionality I'm sure a lot of people (even Emacs > users) would end up switching to hack Javascript instead of LISP. > > 6) The special features of Lisp and the extensibility of Emacs make it > be the perfect candidate for an extensible and modular web browser. > Current browsers are tending to improve their extensibility by means > of "plugins" and "extensions". Emacs has since long time a powerful > scripting that a lot of browsers would envy to have. > > - Emacs-w3m is not enough and it's not an Emacs module that can be extend= ed. > - Emacs/w3 was a very good idea but soon it has passed more than 1 > year since the last single commit to the git repository, it doesn't > look very active at all (am I wrong?). > > So.. I just want to know what's the general feeling of the emacs-dev > community about having an emacs web-browser and what expectations > should we have in this regard, is there any other work being done by > anyone? how much is the interest on this? > > Not long ago a new (alpha) version of Guile was released that > introduced some basic support for ECMAscript, announcing that there's > a goal to support up to version 3.1 of the spec. Would this make it > possible for a (distant) future Guile Emacs to be able to have an > efficient Javascript-capable web browser? > There also seems that a bit more of work was put on the Guile elisp > compiler lately, although it's still far from being mature. > > -- > Fernando > (sorry for my english) > > > I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet: http://www.haxney.org/2009/08/its-alive.html --=20 Deniz Dogan