From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Deniz Dogan Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: ERC: Scroll to bottom by default Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:28:54 +0200 Message-ID: <7b501d5c0907311128k33c309b3o5d934691068a9071@mail.gmail.com> References: <7b501d5c0907310751y2d9626bcj75c75f328b3f95c2@mail.gmail.com> <3b31caf90907311031u4b31a3a2k81276c134502bcec@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1249065021 8733 80.91.229.12 (31 Jul 2009 18:30:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 18:30:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Edward O'Connor" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 31 20:30:14 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MWwrs-0007iF-7C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:30:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46498 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MWwrr-0003qQ-Bq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:30:11 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MWwql-0003KD-G9 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:29:03 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MWwqg-0003Je-4i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:29:02 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=49279 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MWwqf-0003JZ-Qp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:28:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mx20.gnu.org ([199.232.41.8]:2862) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MWwqf-0007xx-Ek for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:28:57 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ew0-f211.google.com ([209.85.219.211]) by mx20.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MWwqe-0008FZ-No for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 14:28:56 -0400 Original-Received: by ewy7 with SMTP id 7so1610600ewy.42 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:28:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=M2PPhLkw8HqmjhiEN4apX38CcFS9gv2dwyiVQO2mM6I=; b=moGy2LnuyvT5qKRIviVgajCPWH8F6cFp7blrzKpMn7wrddHv5o76mcvyDVr/0NWd9f 9Kp+0M6kWrTQ8pqz9PUk5SD/mXU+bs1qJc0zEloHKBjc0tji1rjMmOk7F2gKqqTXfGlf KY4SmeXhSM9GoWJFfJL7wXJeVpHi3TmhTnk2g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=SFymLcZh/NVwbVl/ioyT/WsJsyte4nQ7KlZaUUO7EmLn/SjxLGbDDeGAcbHBgw0o8I +Ggvxs6EmX5Mg4qU/EyH9fNCNfpaQxIYyhMRXlpeRh/VNsMyxdA0vy28j70sa6zRuhSO NnVBuwqWtFJhCCbSNodq1vZLZzraTeDTyg6Uc= Original-Received: by 10.210.131.6 with SMTP id e6mr1301826ebd.29.1249064934514; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:28:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3b31caf90907311031u4b31a3a2k81276c134502bcec@mail.gmail.com> X-Detected-Operating-System: by mx20.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:113474 Archived-At: 2009/7/31 Edward O'Connor : >> This has always bugged me[...] >> Given the nature of IRC and IM protocols in general, I think most >> people would want to enable scrolltobottom by default and set >> erc-input-line-position to -1, > > I disagree. One of the advantages of using IRC (or IM, etc.) in Emacs > is that things act like they're in Emacs. If a buffer started keeping > its last line at the bottom of the window, regardless of mode, that > would be really weird. Personally, I don't think that would be weird at all, as it is the way "many other editors", and especially IRC clients, do it. Now that I think about it, I would actually like to have that behavior by default in all of my Emacs buffers... I can see why others would see it as weird though. >> to make it act like pretty much every >> other IRC client out there. > > By that argument, we should have kept `erc-prompt-interactive-input', > which moved the ERC prompt out of the buffer and into the minibuffer. > But that UI doesn't fit in with Emacs, so we dropped it. In the case of Emacs and ERC, I think there just happened to exist two separate "lowermost lines" in the client; one in each ERC buffer, like mIRC's MDI windows, and one in the minibuffer, like irssi's channel-independent input line. The analogue to the minibuffer in other clients could be seen as a status bar (status messages that are not in the mode line) or a settings dialog (M-x, M-:), etc. And of course, it could also be regarded a place to put messages. >> I keep forgetting how to set it, since there are two variables that need to be changed. > > Maybe the documentation could be improved to make how to do this more clear? The documentation is probably clear enough, I'm just too lazy to read it. I simply don't see the point in having half a window of empty space in an IRC buffer. In my eyes, the current defaults are just a waste of screen space in the name of being like the rest of Emacs in general. Another idea would be to automatically set erc-input-line-position to -1 when erc-scrolltobottom-mode is started. I can't see how erc-scrolltobottom-mode would be useful without it. What do you think? -- Deniz Dogan