From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Glen Stark Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: pirate bay, w3m, and the interface is just an interface (BEST post ever) Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 13:52:03 GMT Organization: Easynews - www.easynews.com Message-ID: <7_dQw.394453$pU1.163510@fx24.am4> References: <87k31v83eb.fsf@debian.uxu> <87r3vrfid8.fsf@debian.uxu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1427205341 3036 80.91.229.3 (24 Mar 2015 13:55:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 13:55:41 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 24 14:55:34 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YaPIl-0007VB-EL for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Mar 2015 14:55:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60913 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YaPIf-0002dP-Ru for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Mar 2015 09:55:21 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!goblin2!goblin.stu.neva.ru!cyclone01.ams2.highwinds-media.com!voer-me.highwinds-media.com!peer01.am1!peering.am1!peer01.fr7!news.highwinds-media.com!post01.fr7!fx24.am4.POSTED!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help User-Agent: Pan/0.139 (Sexual Chocolate; GIT bf56508 git://git.gnome.org/pan2) Original-Lines: 73 Original-X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. X-Received-Body-CRC: 714899071 X-Received-Bytes: 4622 Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:211007 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:103288 Archived-At: On Mon, 22 Dec 2014 23:08:03 +0100, Emanuel Berg wrote: >> Look, you quite clearly are, which is quite offensive for those of us >> who believe that all people should be afforded equal rights under the >> law, including that tiny minority who strive to improve the world >> through the creation of art. It's not up to you to decide that this >> minority does not deserve the right to the work to which they give >> their lives. >> I have a big problem with the language of this paragraph. First of all, there are just and unjust laws. Current copyright law is pretty far from just in almost any country with trade agreements with the United States. The copyright law spreading out from the United States is far from optimized to protect the rights of creative types. In fact the losses which creators suffer due to the beneficiaries of copyright law is far greater than the losses they suffer due to the violators of copyright law. Copyright law is an infringement of free speech rights. When the founders of the American constitution decided to allow copyright and patent law, they did so with great reservation. Thomas Jefferson expressed these reservations quite elegantly. There was spirited debate about the merits of encouraging creativity and research through copyright and patent law, and the cost to society through the impingement of the fundamental freedom of free-speech. Over the subsequent 2XX years that followed, copyright holders gained more and more wealth, and Americas legal system grew more and more into a cash-for-laws system. The carefully crafted compromise that the founders created, which balanced the goals of rewarding creative endeavors against the public good has eroded into a system where copyright terms exceed over 90 years, where copyrights have been retroactively stolen from the public domain and granted to large copyright oligarchies, and where fair use has eroded to the point of non-existence. Worse, the media oligarchies are capable of disseminating propaganda so ubiquitous and nefarious that Goebbels would have felt like an amateur to behold. Before getting offended at viewpoint that are more nuanced than yours, you should really inform yourself better. Some good places to start are: 1. Free culture by Professor Lawrence Lessig. 2. Any talk on the subject by Cory Doctorow. 3. "The Internet's Own Boy", a documentary about Aaron Schwartz. 3. chillingeffect.org 4. questioncopyright.org "Free Culture" is one of my favorite books on the subject, and is an excellent starting point, as it does a great job of synthesizing the negative impact of today's out-of-control copyright law on society, the economy, and especially creativity and the artists who want to exercise it. If one starts from a position of ignorance, and accepts the propaganda that copyright-law is somehow an embodyment of a natural right, as opposed to an a restriction on a natural right, and accepts the fallacy that copyright benefits artists and creators, as opposed to the truth that copyright (as currently practiced) benefits copyright *holders*, it's easy to get sucked into the fallacy that copyright-violation is thef, and get judgmental and offend. If one is informed about the history and facts of the economics of copyright law, it's much easier to understand how some might consider copyright-violation to be an act of civil disobedience. You may not find it such an act of civil disobedience justified, but I find that high-horses on this subject have been bred from ignorance. Cheers, Glen Stark.