From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= via help-gnu-emacs Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Ctrl-[ ? Date: Sat, 8 Jun 2019 20:48:49 +0900 Message-ID: <7D06268A-29E9-47A3-A722-ADDBC456213F@icloud.com> References: <08AC8151-5911-40FA-8B20-818B839D00AB@traduction-libre.org> <86h892nk2g.fsf@zoho.eu> <9379C01B-80E3-49DD-B830-46CED773DC2C@traduction-libre.org> <83lfydrkde.fsf@gnu.org> <874l51q0s4.fsf@telefonica.net> <83ef45rdij.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhmto6fa.fsf@telefonica.net> <20190607163017.GA32029@tuxteam.de> <96B116FC-8007-4C42-9AE6-585530D0C76E@comcast.net> <87muisor2h.fsf@telefonica.net> <20190608084404.GB28228@tuxteam.de> Reply-To: =?utf-8?B?7KGw7ISx67mI?= Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="256881"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org To: tomas@tuxteam.de Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jun 08 13:49:11 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hZZqR-0014fW-Gb for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 13:49:11 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57014 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hZZqP-00004s-Qf for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 07:49:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39027) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1hZZqF-0008WF-5w for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 07:49:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hZZqD-0005eN-Pm for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 07:48:59 -0400 Original-Received: from pv50p00im-ztbu10021601.me.com ([17.58.6.57]:45173) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hZZqD-0005dO-GP for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 08 Jun 2019 07:48:57 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=icloud.com; s=04042017; t=1559994535; bh=zcoo/831MhWIFRncW3tNUWH2w74TY88sYRz7iyX26Sg=; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From:Date:Message-Id:To; b=XYpvnNa7BV0I5GcvVCNP6BXjVVLfyCeWjG+qpcP6ZGFhPExPMog6N53SgTH4nLWrB 33F0ZZhenxyQfICb/0Ga2Xo57TuqjfbHjjVfBbAbUnCAT8JpvXA6vI22vi/n07iVG/ BdneZJseyixfwCtkO7lFFyELEAiHnDuVPeOD5V5eaRYNPU4M8ejTihqv9NpZbOuEVD /0zF5FErPf2nSLzpfJFm9OocM1bTsdTe5WvkojMUqDSc8EwXqIwxNmcSgfNkuPyfHJ OhTrb+UWow2q6SS6RzoiqCAnVfXtlOXUpSSG8BgCws66u7CoWVWWF5ImkWCSzEx/AI DlCnEy7PkxiNg== Original-Received: from [10.86.126.170] (unknown [223.62.203.133]) by pv50p00im-ztbu10021601.me.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 37BA56E0AD3; Sat, 8 Jun 2019 11:48:55 +0000 (UTC) X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (16F203) In-Reply-To: <20190608084404.GB28228@tuxteam.de> X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:, , definitions=2019-06-08_06:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=1 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1812120000 definitions=main-1906080091 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 17.58.6.57 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:120833 Archived-At: 2019. 6. 8. =EC=98=A4=ED=9B=84 5:44, tomas@tuxteam.de =EC=9E=91=EC=84=B1: >> On Sat, Jun 08, 2019 at 02:31:50AM +0200, =C3=93scar Fuentes wrote: >> Francis Belliveau writes: >>=20 >>> I think that a lot of you are missing the point that was made early on >>> in the discussion. This mapping of ASCII cntrol characters is a >>> definition made by convention since the day of the Teletype machines. >>> It is how the ASCII character set was defined. >>=20 >> So what? Why a GUI user should be inconvenienced or prevented to bind >> C-i, C-[, etc. to whatever he pleases the same way he binds any other >> key combination? >=20 > It /is/ possible: thus I don't quite understand your anger here. >=20 > I think it's OK for it to be discouraged by default. It's OK for it > to be discouraged for "official" Emacs packages. Well, I=E2=80=99m not sure =E2=80=98discouraging=E2=80=99 is to =E2=80=98enc= ourage users to use hacky solutions=E2=80=99 :-( I would rather like if I can rebind them without an hassle, and Emacs can em= it a warning when Emacs is executed insidea terminal. > Because there's some > value in Emacs behaving consistently across backends by default > (as much as possible: it's clear that you can't display a PNG on > a VT220, at least not without some compromise in quality). Well, I remember C-/ not working in terminals while working in GUI Emacs... I= =E2=80=99m fine with that; but that also means C-[ should be rebindable with= out hassle. > Perhaps the ways have to be documented better, and see Stefan's efforts > in making it easier. >=20 > Let me repeat here: there is some value in Emacs behaving consistently > across backends (few editors out there, if any, cover the span from > VT220 to X so elegantly). There are folks who use Emacs simultaneously > with different backends. Well, Emacs should focus consistency between major/minor modes first since t= here are a lot more folks who use Emacs simultaneously with between lots of m= ajor modes... (which is being discussed in the =E2=80=98Is elisp really slow= ?=E2=80=99 thread... :-)) > Cheers > -- tom=C3=A1s