From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13823: 24.3.50; Elisp manual description of property `pure' Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 11:43:34 -0800 Message-ID: <7C809B3AAAD746858CBC43BE77242FAA@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1361907869 1463 80.91.229.3 (26 Feb 2013 19:44:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2013 19:44:29 +0000 (UTC) To: 13823@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 26 20:44:52 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1UAQSD-0004jG-5u for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 20:44:45 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:48609 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1UAQRs-0001nX-9Q for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Tue, 26 Feb 2013 13:43:38 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.140.20) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 26 Feb 2013 11:43:38 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Ac4UWZBYevpe88nwQz245RBhEReqIw== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:71857 Archived-At: The doc for property `pure' is inadequate and misleading. It says only this: `pure' This property is used internally to mark certain named functions for byte compiler optimization. Do not set it. In discussion of bug #13052, no good reason was given for this. The consideration of this property as somehow being "internal", and not for use by anyone programming with Emacs Lisp other than those developing core Emacs, is misguided. Users deserve a real description of what this property does, so they can determine whether and where to use it in code they develop. The same information would of course be useful to core Emacs developers - the manual serves them too. The idea of withholding such information from users is misguided. All users are potentially Emacs-Lisp users and even potentially core Emacs developers. The Elisp manual should say what such a property actually does, specifically. AFAICT, there is no difference between using this property in code distributed as part of core Emacs and using it in other, user code. Why shouldn't, for example, a user function with a definition similar to, or even identical to, that for `kbd' have `pure' applied to it, since it is applied to `kbd'? Why make users guess when `pure' might be appropriate or inappropriate? Emacs Dev really needs to get over its antiquated conception of Emacs users as something other than Emacs-Lisp developers. The world has moved beyond end users submitting batch requests at the Univac job queue. GNU should be in the vanguard of putting users first and encouraging them to dig into, understand, and modify the programs that GNU provides. Shame on GNU for not helping users by making things more transparent. In GNU Emacs 24.3.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2013-02-25 on ODIEONE Bzr revision: 111879 yamaoka@jpl.org-20130225224731-cv9gznq5nqf3ei7g Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 Configured using: `configure --with-gcc (4.7) --no-opt --enable-checking --cflags -IC:/Devel/emacs/build/include --ldflags -LC:/Devel/emacs/build/lib'