From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: chad Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Calling (package-initialize) sooner during initialization Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 15:37:45 -0700 Message-ID: <7914BB69-83E9-436F-8B1C-D90076DE0DC2@gmail.com> References: <87383xk4ia.fsf@taylan.uni.cx> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2098\)) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_164CF4DB-E8D3-4801-A88B-65CBF4DD6903" X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1429396691 18337 80.91.229.3 (18 Apr 2015 22:38:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2015 22:38:11 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , Artur Malabarba To: emacs-devel Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 19 00:38:04 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YjbNC-0006qt-NM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2015 00:38:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47022 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YjbNB-0006YB-W0 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 18:38:01 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:49533) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YjbN8-0006Y5-Tz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 18:38:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YjbN2-0006k5-5e for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 18:37:58 -0400 Original-Received: from p3plsmtpa07-10.prod.phx3.secureserver.net ([173.201.192.239]:58825) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YjbN2-0006jv-0H for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 18:37:52 -0400 Original-Received: from [10.0.0.140] ([209.37.216.74]) by p3plsmtpa07-10.prod.phx3.secureserver.net with id Hadn1q0011ctKqh01adpxG; Sat, 18 Apr 2015 15:37:51 -0700 X-Sender: chad@lonesharkgames.com In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2098) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 173.201.192.239 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:185641 Archived-At: --Apple-Mail=_164CF4DB-E8D3-4801-A88B-65CBF4DD6903 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On 18 Apr 2015, at 10:16, Stefan Monnier = wrote: >=20 > I think all those discussions are missing the point. > If we want to improve the system to the point of considering adding = new > init files, then we should try and fix other problems at the same = time. > [=E2=80=A6] > Maybe a solution is to simply make customize-set-variables lazier, so > that variables with a :require see their setting delayed to after > package-initialize was called. Or else, have package-initialize be > called by customize-set-variables. Or=E2=80=A6 I havent tried it as a solution to these issues, since I long-ago split customize out into a separate file that is loaded manually at a specific place in my .emacs file, but it seems that John Wiegleys use-package package might address this issue more generally, by deferring the relevant config steps programmatically. This would be new infrastructure that new users could use in place of the existing snippets that they place in their init files (presumably from the web, email, friends, etc). The project right now is hosted on github, which (IIRC) can be read without an account and without allowing javascript. https://github.com/jwiegley/use-package = I recall that some people in this thread use use-package, so perhaps they can shoot down this idea or suggest ways to make it useful. ~Chad= --Apple-Mail=_164CF4DB-E8D3-4801-A88B-65CBF4DD6903 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On 18 Apr 2015, at 10:16, Stefan Monnier <monnier@IRO.UMontreal.CA> wrote:

I think all those = discussions are missing the point.
If we want to improve = the system to the point of considering adding new
init = files, then we should try and fix other problems at the same time.
[=E2=80=A6]
Maybe a solution is to simply make = customize-set-variables lazier, so
that variables with a = :require see their setting delayed to after
package-initialize was called.  Or else, have = package-initialize be
called by customize-set-variables. =  Or=E2=80=A6

I = havent tried it as a solution to these issues, since I = long-ago
split customize out into a separate file that is = loaded manually
at a specific place in my .emacs file, but it = seems that John
Wiegleys use-package package might address = this issue more generally,
by deferring the relevant config = steps programmatically. This would
be new infrastructure that = new users could use in place of the
existing snippets that = they place in their init files (presumably
from the web, = email, friends, etc).

The project = right now is hosted on github, which (IIRC) can be = read
without an account and without allowing = javascript.


I recall that some people in this thread use = use-package, so perhaps
they can shoot down this idea or = suggest ways to make it useful.

~Chad
= --Apple-Mail=_164CF4DB-E8D3-4801-A88B-65CBF4DD6903--