From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Lee Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: How to get rid of *GNU Emacs* buffer on start-up? Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 10:06:41 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <785ef809-e748-4291-a25a-1487b27aa39f@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com> References: <873ajzwoqu.fsf@kobe.laptop> <823901dd-c54c-4e3b-b6ad-512d52724a46@z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com> <15b2444a-fece-4781-b57b-5e738ed1d202@a29g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <26f9d70d-4131-42f1-a368-42aa0d28a940@b30g2000prf.googlegroups.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1222105248 22047 80.91.229.12 (22 Sep 2008 17:40:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:40:48 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Sep 22 19:41:44 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KhpPn-0006Ib-OZ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:41:41 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:49908 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KhpOl-0003Kr-4K for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2008 13:40:35 -0400 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 69 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.6.185.159 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1222103202 8820 127.0.0.1 (22 Sep 2008 17:06:42 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 17:06:42 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: z11g2000prl.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.6.185.159; posting-account=qPxGtQkAAADb6PWdLGiWVucht1ZDR6fn User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10_4_11; en) AppleWebKit/525.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Safari/525.22, gzip(gfe), gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:162567 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:57910 Archived-At: On Sep 22, 9:29 am, Nikolaj Schumacher wrote: > XahLee wrote: > > many apps, including most browsers and text editor, can start without > > a window present. (on the Mac) > > > In fact, i think that's most apps behave on the Mac these days. (as > > opposed to must having a window present. (on Windows, this is somewhat > > irrelavent since each app are often in its own window with menu bar)) > > > In AquaMacs for example, you can close all buffers, windows, frames, > > without quiting the app. > > Correct. That's how apps are supposed to behave on Macs according to > the human interface guidelines. It's more document than app based. > > However this mechanism can't simply be adapted for other operating > systems. On Windows and most X systems, closing the last window is > expected to terminate the application and there's no way to access a > window-less application (other than notification area hacks). So this > is not a viable solution. Yes. Though that doesn't constitute a good argument against Untitled for replacement of *scratch*. In Windows, emacs can simply start with a Untitled document. Same with X. To be a bit complete... let me give a rough describtion about this in various OS. On Mac (both Find thru the 1990s as well as OS X since about 2001), as you know, each app has a menu bar at the top of the screen. In the past, some apps will always have a window. Once you close the last Window, it is equivalent to quitting the program. That is, you won't be able to have a menu bar of the app without any windows. In the history of mac apps, however most apps does not adopt this approach. That is, you could close all windows and just leave the app running with nothing but a menu bar. However, as far as my experience goes, apps that require you to have a window present is pretty much gone these days. Off hand i cant think of a app now in Mac that requires you having at least one window present. In Windows, as most of you know, each app runs inside a window, with the app's menu in the Window. On Windows, however, there are also 2 different styles though. One is that each window represent a instance of a running program. The other is that all instance of a app runs inside one frame of a window. More specifically, each file, document, etc is represented as a window inside the app's window. This window within window style is pretty much disppeared as far as i know. (for those tech geekers who likes to nickpick without regard to the whole, they will retort that it is not true each instance runs a window... but i'm just giving a brief, simplified description of the UI style) In X, used by unixes and linuxes... before about 2000, they are pretty much chaotic. Only with the inception of KDE and Gnome, where they basically copied Windows wholesale, then you have a situation pretty much like Windows where each file or document of a app appears in a window with the app's menu bar at top of the window. the above is just some rough description of styles of windows and apps in Mac, Windows, X. Alan was saying that there must be something running, possibly as a reason against getting rid of the *scratch* buffer. I was saying, that it is not necessarily true, and it doesnt constitute a reason against ridding *scratch* because you can just have a Untitled doc as in most apps in Mac, Windows, as well as X. Xah =E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/ =E2=98=84