From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_R=c3=b6hler?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs popular again with a video Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 10:18:57 +0200 Message-ID: <775e96a3-d35c-0a9b-9740-cf924a9c4593@online.de> References: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> <70bb51fd-447d-928c-4d69-1c9673a44471@online.de> <55fd40f2-0468-d724-425d-c28c9d17b301@online.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="98348"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed May 13 10:12:09 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jYmUq-000PTU-OT for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 10:12:08 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:45038 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYmUp-0002JS-Ow for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 04:12:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58898) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYmUG-0001rR-8T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 13 May 2020 04:11:32 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([217.72.192.73]:43283) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jYmUE-0004jg-Uq; Wed, 13 May 2020 04:11:31 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.178.39] ([94.134.177.39]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N2VCb-1j6LYm3toF-013veZ; Wed, 13 May 2020 10:11:27 +0200 In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Nd+4rPlPWdlUMQTEnxtprFyc0jh5M/4kCdmg46q6M7wJ2+pzdEy z8ATAIv8OfjM7mgft7CHj/mtMvLp2K19eZme1LSuGqYBnw5htf9Nevn0kSnJs3jQ8QcCnL4 XrShE3+QvIWhgmTgf2DEjU/43qubX05NuuBpjgesxLUevmA3h9eoA+HfHvu0CY7TF/HWbiw aRCPfYpnvsYEqwBobS6xg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:4rqdo0qLbAY=:MNk4DYT62xF3HVypvAJWTL OKVJjMt3zeV6pexDYWAm8L8GezT0BqbzkWh7sCSgfg+Urfkrhy6en1Bl9DzM72oDbA1JbvWf8 KPi77yqn5SCo39jjq0IhWsNctonqiok8uHUmPb38FwR7vfGgsvObwjjoPln7ul0xmzIUgGFkM f6Eh7J3Gy6miTbnlDDrtYygaGRvvix1sI3AfMDd6JM70LCP3faYYsDV0+MhJ9kwjOX5YFN3w5 4wlpNvl41K+V+g3arCXqbh6Y/tMWQsPedD2EDV98bVhN3edUQ55amuc8RceLxhNu22ylh1v5O PmTiP5AWk8lazjkfd99rIJwAQTcYluQhlFREr1QbyWo0vED52EVLjF/KpfXrUICtJ2bkeZ6py v1LWxgonO3GQePaMLhO4obKki3Lcl3CMM0Z86XH116QbzgG5Q4LqHGZ0LTMXIcSELtGeU9Hao I0fUEV02zskQ32DBc3rE8gyHjZosvxXF0hEKlqnmBtTHHc3Kxg4ecFdfKtY/+4CI8Zw8N/46b IziXAfkPlXYY3BYiPZRCO2FT0YIjj5Y+ZGdV3jTAu+MHxw1lhGpYNVRODenJRffWANLa4/P8I KH/QieZHDW1Y1qXojerqICBZmZMpm5FIh8P/Bh7k/N+rnev8aoGXcmAa4nr5HrhPv2t6XE7VH UMaZxMNqYh0chdq5sK+TdpEdCD34fIRxCqZBUa8vc9KRhQcOh03seVCOVCZROlhEx9ka7K3nU v1CK8o6w9t6tFWOvSa5ZiopDY4O2kV8UsgESeb52OyhGkqyAcdl8+DkndQHej5u/FLOpk4x3 Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.72.192.73; envelope-from=andreas.roehler@online.de; helo=mout.kundenserver.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/13 04:11:28 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250101 Archived-At: On 13.05.20 05:55, Richard Stallman wrote: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > The power of Emacs comes from being able to write new commands a [...], > > read and modify commands that are already in Emacs. > > That is true. That's what "extensible" refers to. > > The question is, is it worth spending a few paragraphs on those points: > > > You are reading about GNU Emacs, > > When I wrote the first Emacs in 1976, these were exciting new advances. > Most users had never imagined such features in an editor. > > Maybe today every programmer has seen such features elsewhere, and > responds to that statement with, "ho hum." If so, maybe we should > delete those paragraphs. > > On the other hand, maybe the standard of comparison today is something > hardly extensible at all. ISTR that Microsoft Turd has macros; can they > support nontrivial extensions? What about Google Crocks in a browser, > can that support nontrivial extensions? > > Assume understand your point. But the question was about didactics. What a beginner, starting to write a letter, needs to know? Why Emacs is censored having a steep learning curve? All things mentioned in this first sentence are probably true. However must admit even after years not being sure what "GNU incarnation of the advanced, self-documenting, customizable, extensible editor Emacs" should mean. Are there other incarnations than GNU incarnation of Emacs thinkable? Instead "GNU incarnation of ...Emacs" would understand "Emacs, an incarnation of GNU" - whatever GNU means...