From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#39557: 27.0.60; Elisp manual, doc about bignums Date: Tue, 11 Feb 2020 10:26:08 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <77485d0f-28cc-46a1-a459-34e6fef7083a@default> References: <<3d420026-bb32-413f-9a9c-304240aa82e2@default>> <<8336bhrrb4.fsf@gnu.org>> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="94866"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: 39557@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 11 19:27:13 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1j1aFd-000OZF-0P for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Tue, 11 Feb 2020 18:26:09 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0122.oracle.com (aserv0122.oracle.com [141.146.126.236]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2y26hvd5dk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 11 Feb 2020 18:26:09 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by aserv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 01BIQ93D003132; Tue, 11 Feb 2020 18:26:09 GMT In-Reply-To: <<8336bhrrb4.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4954.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9528 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=556 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2001150001 definitions=main-2002110126 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9528 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxlogscore=611 priorityscore=1501 clxscore=1011 impostorscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2001150001 definitions=main-2002110126 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:175951 Archived-At: > > Some functions in Emacs accept only fixnums. Also, while fixnums can > > always be compared for numeric equality with 'eq', bignums require > > more-heavyweight equality predicates like 'eql'." > > > > That's really the _last_ thing we should tell users, not the first. > > > > And even if we tell them something like that we should NOT emphasize > > using `eq' ("bignums _require_..."). We should NOT give users the > > impression that they should want to avoid the "more-heavyweight" > > comparison function `eql'. > > > > We should instead tell users, right away, that they can (and typically > > should) use `eql' for comparing any integers, regardless of whether the= y > > happen, on this or that platform/machine, to be fixnums or bignums. > > > > I'm really surprised this doc got inserted as it is. > > > > Using `eq' is only an optimisation; it's platform/machine-specific; and > > it makes users worry about whether the numbers being compared are both > > fixnums. (Sure, they can always test first with `fixnump' or `bignump'= , > > but still...) > > > > And I don't see where the doc tells you how the Lisp reader treats an > > integer numeral - when it gives you a fixnum and when it gives you a > > bignum. Shouldn't it tell you that you get a fixnum whenever the value > > is within the fixnum range (if that's in fact the case)? I mean, if > > you're going to be comparing against a literal value, and the doc slant= s > > you toward using `eq' as it does, you'll at least want to know whether > > some numeral ends up as a fixnum or a bignum. (Sure, you can always > > test it...) >=20 > There seems to be a contradiction here: where we do describe the > difference between fixnums and bignums, you argue that we shouldn't, > but then you pick up a place where we don't distinguish between them, > and you argue that we should... Maybe read again what I wrote. I didn't say we should not describe the difference between the two. Not at all.