From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Adrian Robert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Use Core Text for Cocoa Emacs Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 11:21:45 +0300 Message-ID: <7733CBB7-C71D-4DC3-B256-5C91C68EF0C5@gmail.com> References: <94E6FF46-4227-4DA2-BE35-C64908558378@gmail.com> <18325.1274214480@ccs.covici.com> <24612.1274240176@ccs.covici.com> <6FB96086-3851-4AAB-BA98-4D4C7ED94F7D@mit.edu> <9342.1274324397@ccs.covici.com> <4BF4CF6E.4040105@gnu.org> <11778.1274337231@ccs.covici.com> <87sk5kifgy.fsf@home.jasonrumney.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1274521402 13594 80.91.229.12 (22 May 2010 09:43:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 May 2010 09:43:22 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jason Rumney Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat May 22 11:43:20 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OFlEf-0007cF-AM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 22 May 2010 11:43:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60336 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OFkaW-00012M-7b for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 22 May 2010 05:01:44 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=53674 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OFk4b-0002Vl-Sy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 May 2010 04:28:46 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OFk4a-0001dH-As for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 May 2010 04:28:45 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ew0-f216.google.com ([209.85.219.216]:58145) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OFjxw-0000kB-Gp; Sat, 22 May 2010 04:21:52 -0400 Original-Received: by ewy8 with SMTP id 8so323911ewy.8 for ; Sat, 22 May 2010 01:21:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:subject:mime-version :content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc:content-transfer-encoding :message-id:references:to:x-mailer; bh=60TwFMxJaMBFsyZn6g1vbG81tDvsSSOaH2SZXkouNHM=; b=R0vy/oV/CpyO0JqaMk7tlBA9RdtrEuz6G6MgulyNkT5Znu303KYt0xwfomRf/ZGYru qfxS8OIfoqMPbz3DA+SnstJGFvwLhST0yni2UQgjzKCRQd0JsljHmOcdNIvBT4UHOeeR y1AqVtv3UOp0gov1h/7VBpC6EkLVZt/kNoW30= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; b=ed2zssWvJdIygcYhATQuZgDZ8nDZtnLx9PIe9vUF+Ybhbas9/alxO0GJzvZSvvIq6s 7fbrkPIGfwP/lA9xvZ6jwzzoHyePjQew9ArmGZyBuTjU/+aMjepkAv5hf7CoFV6w3iHO 2wIIUUFYGMYJ/WMOVpsG5QJQVLOAmH2VDH1JM= Original-Received: by 10.213.43.142 with SMTP id w14mr797666ebe.70.1274516509300; Sat, 22 May 2010 01:21:49 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [10.0.1.2] (dsl-hkibrasgw2-ff6ec300-110.dhcp.inet.fi [88.195.110.110]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 16sm865333ewy.15.2010.05.22.01.21.46 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 22 May 2010 01:21:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87sk5kifgy.fsf@home.jasonrumney.net> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:125051 Archived-At: On May 22, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Jason Rumney wrote: > Adrian Robert writes: >=20 >> ccs.covici.com> writes: >>=20 >>> Microsoft Word is complete inaccessible on the mac, >>> Microsoft won't conform and Apple says heck with you -- in other = words. >>=20 >> How is Apple saying "heck with you" here? >=20 > Because any system that requires special effort on the part of > developers to make applications accessible will not get many = accessible > applications made for it. >=20 > Other systems' accessible applications may be inferior in some way due > to the fact they don't have these special APIs, but since no effort is > required by the application developers, the sheer volume of accessible > applications outweighs that. So you're saying they did what ended up being an inferior job of = producing accessibility APIs.. I still don't see how that is the same as = saying "the heck with you". Maybe Apple feels its more difficult API = results in a better experience for end users, and that it's better to = have a few good apps then many less good ones. Or maybe it doesn't, but = it was just too difficult for them to implement something as clean as = the Windows approach given the framework environment they were starting = from. I don't know the technical details here but I suspect both = accessibility approaches were retrofits.