From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#32643: 26; minor-mode variables Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 08:07:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <76891a81-fd9d-4a8d-aa34-a653e39b8276@default> References: <<<<3ce888af-aa04-4dd2-99b5-0882e37024f3@default> >>> <<<<494224f1-815f-4fb4-a779-75e243b519f0@default>>>> <<<<83sh2mwv8w.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<488f04e4-8389-459b-b3c7-603e48bed452@default>>> <<<83lg8ewk2c.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<83lg8dvmia.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536332829 5048 195.159.176.226 (7 Sep 2018 15:07:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2018 15:07:09 +0000 (UTC) Cc: rms@gnu.org, 32643@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 07 17:07:05 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fyILg-0001CW-Q7 for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Fri, 7 Sep 2018 15:07:56 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0006.oracle.com (abhmp0006.oracle.com [141.146.116.12]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id w87F7t76001230; Fri, 7 Sep 2018 15:07:55 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83lg8dvmia.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4735.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5900 definitions=9009 signatures=668708 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=929 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1807170000 definitions=main-1809070154 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:150121 Archived-At: > > > As for auto-fill-mode, can you tell why it is important to have a > > > variable there? What cannot you do without that variable? > > > > No, according to the convention the shoe is on the other foot. > > Why should it not have a variable? That's the convention. > > Why should `auto-fill-mode' be an exception? >=20 > Because it always was like that. You can't even say why it was made an exception to the rule, yet you say that it should remain such an exception just because it was one. Amazing. It would be one thing, if you pointed out some possible reasons why any variable should be an exception. To just say that we don't know why it is the way it is but it should remain a rule breaker for unknown reasons is quite a stance. > > You can do `C-h v auto-fill-mode' to check whether it is on. > > Minor modes do not necessarily have mode-line lighters. >=20 > But auto-fill-mode does have a lighter. The point is that you cannot depend on a lighter for this in general, because "Minor modes do not necessarily have mode-line lighters." And even in the case of one, like auto-fill-mode, which does have a lighter, if you don't know that it does and the mode is off then you won't necessarily think to try toggling it twice and look for the lighter. But `C-h v VARIABLE' works every time - as long as the mode has a variable. And there are, I think, far, far fewer modes that don't have variables than modes that don't have lighters. (No, I have no proof of that. But do you think otherwise?) > > > > > I think the manual already does what you want, it just doesn't sa= y > > > > > this is a bug (because it isn't, IMO). > > > > > > > > The manual says nothing, AFAICT, that provides guidance about when > > > > a mode should not or need not have a variable. Based on what it doe= s > > > > say, each mode "should" have a variable. Is that your point? > > > > > > My point is that the manual recommends that there be a variable. > > > > No one disagrees that that is the case. >=20 > Then you agree that "the manual already does what you want", yes? No. And I've been clear about what's missing or misleading. I won't repeat that unless it is unclear to you even after rereading what I've already said about it. > > > > Keeping the text suggests that there is some good reason why some > > > > modes do not have variables. > > > > > > There's no such suggestion, it's just a statement of a fact. > > > > Why is that fact stated? >=20 > OK, I think this discussion goes nowhere, so let's stop here.