From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#3516: 23.0.94; function key names in Info Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 14:03:19 -0700 Message-ID: <763EEFF6285E42849FBF73B1B0B727A5@us.oracle.com> References: <838vs3fq0t.fsf@gnu.org> <8362n7fmj4.fsf@gnu.org> <9F8D92A1589E4FEBBD8FD4F9D357247A@us.oracle.com> <831uxvfdit.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1310506203 20558 80.91.229.12 (12 Jul 2011 21:30:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:30:03 +0000 (UTC) Cc: larsi@gnus.org, 3516@debbugs.gnu.org To: "'Eli Zaretskii'" Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 12 23:29:58 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([140.186.70.17]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1QgkWi-0004VE-Mc for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 23:29:56 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54880 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1QgkWh-0001Yw-Ms for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:29:55 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]:56516) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qgk7h-0003mq-4R for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:04:06 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qgk7f-0002s3-B8 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:04:04 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:39725) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Qgk7f-0002rv-4B for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:04:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qgk7e-0003Bj-85; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:04:02 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:04:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 3516 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: notabug Original-Received: via spool by 3516-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B3516.131050462012220 (code B ref 3516); Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:04:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 3516) by debbugs.gnu.org; 12 Jul 2011 21:03:40 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qgk7G-0003B3-Uy for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:03:39 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com ([141.146.126.227]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Qgk7F-0003Ar-AT for 3516@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:03:38 -0400 Original-Received: from rtcsinet22.oracle.com (rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.4/Switch-3.4.4) with ESMTP id p6CL3TDa028516 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:03:31 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by rtcsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p6CL3Rht026551 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:03:28 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt114.oracle.com (abhmt114.oracle.com [141.146.116.66]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id p6CL3MYP000648; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 16:03:22 -0500 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.41.211) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 12 Jul 2011 14:03:21 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <831uxvfdit.fsf@gnu.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6109 Thread-Index: AcxA0kOygtdC56YuS22OXWM9mbg8tAAAiyDA X-Source-IP: rtcsinet22.oracle.com [66.248.204.30] X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090207.4E1CB6A3.003F:SCFSTAT5015188, ss=1, re=-4.000, fgs=0 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 17:04:02 -0400 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:48786 Archived-At: > > > > What you describe is an implementation problem (Texinfo, Info). > > > > > > Actually, no: _you_ are talking about implementation. > > > > No. I am talking only about the appearance in Info. > > The appearance in Info _is_ implementation. When you look at it only as an implementor, perhaps. Try to take an Info reader point of view. > > I am not speaking about references to the _name_ of the key. > > I made that clear from the beginning. > > You made nothing clear about that, till now. Yes, I did, by speaking about "key sequence". > > I am speaking about references to the key sequence `', > > that is, to the _use_ of the key. > > "use" is a grey area. What about the following sentence: > > To end a line, press the key. It's fine, as shorthand for "press the key named ". is the name of the key. But it is also fine to write "press `'". Here we are using the name to refer to the key sequence, that is, the key. We are saying press the key. We are saying the same thing as "press the key named ". IOW, if we refer to that key-pressing action using the Emacs key-sequence notation, we say "press `'" or similar. `' refers to using the key named in an input sequence. > Are we naming a key by its label or are we talking about a "key > sequence"? See above. We can say either. It depends whether what is important is the key sequence or the name of the key. If we want to talk about the name, then ; if we want to talk about the input (key) sequence then `'. > If you don't understand Texinfo and don't care about the other output > formats, your report is not of much use, because changes to the manual > _must_ consider all supported forms of output. You consider them, then. I reported the bug. I'm not proposing what internal coding to fix it with, i.e., to get the proper appearance in Info. > > you can enter `M-a' by typing ` a'. > > You can enter `C-M-a' by typing ` C-a'. > > > > Here we correctly write ` a' and not `a' or a. > > When it's clearly part of a sequence of inputs, yes. Thank you. Now please go DTRT. That's what this bug report is about. In Emacs we have a conventional way to represent an input sequence of key presses (and other input events, including mouse clicks etc.): we put the key names, in order, between single quotes: `...'. We call such an input sequence a "key sequence". We speak of a key sequence whenever we refer to such an input sequence, including in the context of key bindings: "this command is bound to the key sequence `M-x'." This is as true for a key named as it is for any other key. When referring to it in the context of a key sequence it should be between single quotes.