From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 12:18:18 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> References: <<<20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com>>> <<>> <<<20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com>>> <<<87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de>>> <<<20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com>>> <<<87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>>> <<<20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com>>> <<<83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com>>> <<<83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com>>> <<<83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<<6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default>>> <<<83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org>>> <> <<83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org>> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="63136"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net, 41097@debbugs.gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support, arthur.miller@live.com To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 10 21:24:11 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXrYY-000GJO-RM for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 21:24:10 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:56424 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXrYX-0006Dy-Sz for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 10 May 2020 15:24:09 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:50030) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXrYQ-0006DN-Js for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; 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Sun, 10 May 2020 19:22:55 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 04AJMlio065716; Sun, 10 May 2020 19:22:54 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30x63k5u5g-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 10 May 2020 19:22:52 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0018.oracle.com (abhmp0018.oracle.com [141.146.116.24]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id 04AJIJ7K015341; Sun, 10 May 2020 19:18:24 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005100181 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9617 signatures=668687 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 clxscore=1015 spamscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 malwarescore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxscore=0 suspectscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2005100181 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:180027 Archived-At: > > Please reconsider. >=20 > Done. >=20 > > Can you point to any other occurrence of referring > > to some mark other than `D' as a "flag" - anywhere > > in the Dired doc or code? All marks, including > > `D', are marks. Only `D' is called "flag". >=20 > "Flag" is just a word. So is "mark". What is your point? Only `D' has been called a flag by Emacs, until now. Dired actions affect marks differently, depending on the mark. There are 3 kinds of actions - 3 groups of marks: 1. Actions that affect only mark `*'. 2. Actions that affect only mark `D'. 3. Actions that affect all marks (including `*' and `D'). By "affect" I mean either act on a file line that has such a mark or add such a mark to a file line. How to refer to these actions, these groups of marks? Up until your change: 1. Emacs has always referred to #1 as "mark", not making specific mention that only `*' is affected. This is the most common kind of action and the most common kind of mark used. 2. Emacs has always, everywhere, referred ONLY to #2 as "flag", including the specific action of UNflagging as "unflag". That said, see #3. 3. Emacs has always, for actions that affect ALL marks or ANY mark (including `D' and `*'), referred to #3 as "mark". Could Emacs have spoken differently? Yes, here's a possibility (not taken by Emacs): 1. Refer ONLY to #1 (`*') as "mark". 2. Refer to #2 as "flag `D'", "flag for deletion". 3. Refer to #3 as "marks and flags" and "mark or flag", and point out specifically that `C', `D', etc. are "flags", whereas `*' is the only "mark". Either of those approaches, the one Emacs has used or the other, is doable, reasonable. But what you've done is instead inconsistent. In a single doc string you've changed the terminology, to refer to `C' as a "flag". No such change for other non-`*' marks. That means that doc for #3 is not only wrong but self-contradictory, as it still talks about the existence of multiple kinds of "mark" - different characters. You say you've reconsidered. I'd ask that you reconsider again. And please elaborate on your "'Flag' is just a word" response to my question: Can you point to any other occurrence of referring to some mark other than `D' as a "flag" - anywhere in the Dired doc or code? =20 That's not a rhetorical question. I know of no such occurrence. Do you? I think what I've said above is correct, regarding #1, #2, #3. Words matter. I gave a reason why I think Emacs chose to use "flag" for `D' - and only for `D': to flag something is to draw special attention to it. Your change works against that. If `C' is now referred to as a "flag" then `D' isn't special in that regard. Users can conclude that all marks except `*' are now "flags". Note, BTW, that mark `R' is handled the way mark `C' is handled. It comes from rename operations. Likewise, `H' (new hard links) and `Y' (new soft links). And each of those cases (copy, rename, hard link, soft link) has a user option that you can set to `t' to cause the target to be marked not with the default mark (`C' etc.) but with whatever mark the source file had. And the doc for each of those options talks about "marks" and "marking", not "flags" and "flagging". The doc for `dired-del-marker', on the other hand, says "flag", exceptionally.