all messages for Emacs-related lists mirrored at yhetil.org
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>, Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
Cc: michael_heerdegen@web.de, tomasn@posteo.net,
	41097@debbugs.gnu.org, bugs@gnu.support, arthur.miller@live.com
Subject: bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy
Date: Sun, 10 May 2020 12:18:18 -0700 (PDT)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <<83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org>>

> > Please reconsider.
> 
> Done.
> 
> > Can you point to any other occurrence of referring
> > to some mark other than `D' as a "flag" - anywhere
> > in the Dired doc or code?  All marks, including
> > `D', are marks.  Only `D' is called "flag".
> 
> "Flag" is just a word.

So is "mark".  What is your point?  Only `D' has
been called a flag by Emacs, until now.

Dired actions affect marks differently, depending
on the mark.  There are 3 kinds of actions - 3
groups of marks:

1. Actions that affect only mark `*'.
2. Actions that affect only mark `D'.
3. Actions that affect all marks (including
   `*' and `D').

By "affect" I mean either act on a file line that
has such a mark or add such a mark to a file line.

How to refer to these actions, these groups
of marks?  Up until your change:

1. Emacs has always referred to #1 as "mark",
   not making specific mention that only `*'
   is affected.  This is the most common kind of
   action and the most common kind of mark used.

2. Emacs has always, everywhere, referred ONLY
   to #2 as "flag", including the specific action
   of UNflagging as "unflag".  That said, see #3.

3. Emacs has always, for actions that affect ALL
   marks or ANY mark (including `D' and `*'),
   referred to #3 as "mark".

Could Emacs have spoken differently?
Yes, here's a possibility (not taken by Emacs):

1. Refer ONLY to #1 (`*') as "mark".

2. Refer to #2 as "flag `D'", "flag for deletion".

3. Refer to #3 as "marks and flags" and "mark
   or flag", and point out specifically that `C',
   `D', etc. are "flags", whereas `*' is the only
   "mark".

Either of those approaches, the one Emacs has
used or the other, is doable, reasonable.

But what you've done is instead inconsistent.
In a single doc string you've changed the
terminology, to refer to `C' as a "flag".  No
such change for other non-`*' marks.

That means that doc for #3 is not only wrong
but self-contradictory, as it still talks about
the existence of multiple kinds of "mark" -
different characters.

You say you've reconsidered.  I'd ask that you
reconsider again.  And please elaborate on your
"'Flag' is just a word" response to my question:

  Can you point to any other occurrence of
  referring to some mark other than `D' as a
  "flag" - anywhere in the Dired doc or code?  

That's not a rhetorical question.  I know of
no such occurrence.  Do you?  I think what I've
said above is correct, regarding #1, #2, #3.

Words matter.  I gave a reason why I think
Emacs chose to use "flag" for `D' - and only
for `D': to flag something is to draw special
attention to it.

Your change works against that.  If `C' is now
referred to as a "flag" then `D' isn't special
in that regard. Users can conclude that all
marks except `*' are now "flags".

Note, BTW, that mark `R' is handled the way
mark `C' is handled.  It comes from rename
operations.  Likewise, `H' (new hard links)
and `Y' (new soft links).

And each of those cases (copy, rename, hard
link, soft link) has a user option that you
can set to `t' to cause the target to be
marked not with the default mark (`C' etc.)
but with whatever mark the source file had.

And the doc for each of those options talks
about "marks" and "marking", not "flags" and
"flagging".  The doc for `dired-del-marker',
on the other hand, says "flag", exceptionally.





       reply	other threads:[~2020-05-10 19:18 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 43+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <<<20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found] ` <<<VI1PR06MB452640273F3311C283C50B5F96A20@VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
     [not found]   ` <<<20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]     ` <<<87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de>
     [not found]       ` <<<20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]         ` <<<87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>
     [not found]           ` <<<20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]             ` <<<83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]               ` <<<20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]                 ` <<<83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                   ` <<<20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]                     ` <<<83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                       ` <<<6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default>
     [not found]                         ` <<<83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                           ` <<af1d7797-47c1-4330-a767-7b4a2773fbac@default>
     [not found]                             ` <<83k11jd8bs.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-05-10 19:18                               ` Drew Adams [this message]
2020-05-10 19:54                                 ` bug#41097: 28.0.50; (dired-toggle-marks) not working after copy Jean Louis
2020-05-10 21:13                                   ` Drew Adams
2020-05-11  5:26                                     ` Jean Louis
2020-05-11 16:03                                       ` Drew Adams
2020-05-11 16:58                                         ` Jean Louis
2020-05-11 17:45                                           ` Drew Adams
2020-05-20  6:37                                             ` Jean Louis
2020-05-20 16:52                                               ` Drew Adams
2020-05-20 17:08                                                 ` Robert Pluim
2020-05-12  3:21                                       ` Richard Stallman
     [not found] <<20200506144423.GW24998@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found] ` <<VI1PR06MB452640273F3311C283C50B5F96A20@VI1PR06MB4526.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com>
     [not found]   ` <<20200508132924.GI14650@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]     ` <<87r1vukl86.fsf@web.de>
     [not found]       ` <<20200509042353.GA15309@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]         ` <<87h7wonnuh.fsf@fliptop.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me>
     [not found]           ` <<20200510095646.GA22962@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]             ` <<83y2pzdgt7.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]               ` <<20200510145503.GE28606@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]                 ` <<83sgg7ddtz.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                   ` <<20200510153311.GH28606@protected.rcdrun.com>
     [not found]                     ` <<83r1vrdbc0.fsf@gnu.org>
     [not found]                       ` <<6bc132d3-2d2d-4eb3-86dd-b818c1b856a2@default>
     [not found]                         ` <<83mu6fd9q6.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-05-10 16:46                           ` Drew Adams
2020-05-10 17:10                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-05 15:01 Jean Louis
2020-05-06 14:05 ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-06 14:44   ` Jean Louis
2020-05-08  9:05     ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-08 13:29       ` Jean Louis
2020-05-09  0:25         ` Michael Heerdegen
2020-05-09  1:50           ` Drew Adams
2020-05-09  5:22             ` Michael Heerdegen
2020-05-09  4:23           ` Jean Louis
2020-05-10  1:11             ` Michael Heerdegen
2020-05-10  5:00               ` Jean Louis
2020-05-10  9:25             ` Tomas Nordin
2020-05-10  9:56               ` Jean Louis
2020-05-10 14:07                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-10 14:55                   ` Jean Louis
2020-05-10 15:11                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-10 15:33                       ` Jean Louis
2020-05-10 16:05                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-10 16:29                           ` Drew Adams
2020-05-10 16:40                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-10 17:17                           ` Jean Louis
2020-05-10 17:19                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-05-10 16:26                       ` Drew Adams
2020-05-10 17:32                         ` Jean Louis
2020-05-11  0:36                         ` Michael Heerdegen
2020-05-11  2:33                           ` Drew Adams
2020-05-11  5:34                             ` Michael Heerdegen
2020-05-11 16:18                               ` Drew Adams
2020-05-11 13:15                         ` Arthur Miller
2020-05-11 16:41                           ` Drew Adams

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=744818d3-e904-43a1-a3c1-a0a4a550ada1@default \
    --to=drew.adams@oracle.com \
    --cc=41097@debbugs.gnu.org \
    --cc=arthur.miller@live.com \
    --cc=bugs@gnu.support \
    --cc=eliz@gnu.org \
    --cc=michael_heerdegen@web.de \
    --cc=tomasn@posteo.net \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this external index

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git
	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git

This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.