From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Daniel Colascione Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Tree-sitter maturity Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2024 03:01:44 -0500 Message-ID: <73737665-984E-4C97-9183-7805C1BCB550@dancol.org> References: <1ed88fca-788a-fe9f-b6c8-edb2f49751c9@mavit.org.uk> <67428b3d.c80a0220.2f3036.adbdSMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> <86ldwdm7xg.fsf@gnu.org> <6765355b.c80a0220.1a6b24.3117SMTPIN_ADDED_BROKEN@mx.google.com> <00554790-CACA-4233-8846-9E091CF1F7AA@gmail.com> <86msgl2red.fsf@gnu.org> <87o710sr7y.fsf@debian-hx90.lan> <8734i9tmze.fsf@posteo.net> <86plldwb7w.fsf@gnu.org> <87ttapryxr.fsf@posteo.net> <0883EB00-3BB2-4BC8-95D1-45F4497C0526@dancol.org> <87plldrx6a.fsf@posteo.net> <87ikr5rwx0.fsf@posteo.net> <86ed1rq6gc.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="12531"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Dec 29 09:02:39 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1tRoFy-00036H-H9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 29 Dec 2024 09:02:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tRoFG-0007F8-2r; Sun, 29 Dec 2024 03:01:54 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tRoFD-0007EY-VQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Dec 2024 03:01:51 -0500 Original-Received: from dancol.org ([2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1tRoFB-0000IE-TZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Dec 2024 03:01:51 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=dancol.org; s=x; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To:From:Date:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=rDKmctJMnFW3iwvYdLJCN51Qsbfv2dZOHshGOvrn78M=; b=A8rHD1N3sFJIovzu3S66n0YasD u8agBZoUuiCpMrpXCpRoZ6L8+bH1Gql/5T0luobSLiroecpIxVZDkz5SpJxgNiiJvBNs8BhcwouND nR2O29yCdKiHaFwGD0ggk5GZt29wXmateOtABTT00Cal8BGS/ABLMp9Abp/DYX6V9P57CTQDv8w0C btUoqPjHFXNu3753v/HeQLMCIbwX1SOigpH55BxFyP/8mMv8S3tXipPANjlJbqYyPK8wrw9m6fx4S loaE2saBdTlSmdecQf68w4hrM6O8Qp0JoJpHhpuLTiD55etYE9S9RqrEwECsFFYroloiglmj/acuD 26dbDRaA==; Original-Received: from 2603-9001-4203-1ab2-8c81-c450-971b-d6ef.inf6.spectrum.com ([2603:9001:4203:1ab2:8c81:c450:971b:d6ef]:48048 helo=[IPv6:::1]) by dancol.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.96) (envelope-from ) id 1tRoF9-0005i8-30 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Dec 2024 03:01:48 -0500 In-Reply-To: <86ed1rq6gc.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2600:3c01:e000:3d8::1; envelope-from=dancol@dancol.org; helo=dancol.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:327320 Archived-At: On December 29, 2024 2:44:19 AM EST, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Sat, 28 Dec 2024 23:23:55 -0500 >> From: Daniel Colascione >> CC: emacs-devel@gnu=2Eorg, manphiz@gmail=2Ecom >>=20 >> >In general, Emacs should not have a FOO-ts-mode without a correspnding >> >FOO-mode=2E Otherwise users will get surprised=2E I'm not talking ab= out >> >_how_ they work, just that the commands should exist=2E >>=20 >> Enforcing this policy will just mean that Emacs doesn't support *at all= * some languages out of the box and will put even more wind in the sails of= soft forks like Doom=2E Tree sitter language descriptions are free softwar= e=2E There's no reason not to rely on them=2E > >We started with this concept of adding tree-sitter based modes to >auto-mode-alist by default, but found that people who don't have the >grammar installed didn't appreciate seeing the warnings about the >missing grammars=2E So Emacs 29 made these modes optional, activated >only by an explicit user action=2E Emacs 30 still does that=2E > >We are currently discussing how to improve this (see the thread Re: >Turning on/off tree-sitter modes, which seems to have stalled lately)=2E >But until the grammar libraries are ubiquitous, and we can rely on >them being present on most systems, I think we will still need some >user say-so before enabling tree-sitter based modes=2E Wouldn't vendoring the grammars, and maybe even tree sitter itself, silenc= e the complaints about the warnings? Tree sitter is pure algorithmic code= =2E It doesn't have any particular platform dependencies=2E Why not simplif= y the whole system and make it a mandatory (and optionally bundled) depende= ncy so that the show cognitive load of having to consider non-TS environmen= ts is just deleted?