From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Lee Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: a key system to replace gnu emacs's 1000 default keybindings Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 02:01:26 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <72fd3e04-ffc3-4b92-a2dc-b8e44eb2f5ee@h10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com> References: <5ee2582c-026b-4ab3-b5a7-c2d3e66ff511@oe8g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> <4d8a8454-22d9-44a3-9f57-7d5791534d30@t2g2000pbl.googlegroups.com> <4FC00690.9090200@thadlabs.com> <7db350db-3809-4ba1-97cd-c4b97357cd4c@pr7g2000pbb.googlegroups.com> <4FC1677C.2090205@thadlabs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1338109516 28564 80.91.229.3 (27 May 2012 09:05:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 09:05:16 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun May 27 11:05:15 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SYZPW-0006tH-VH for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 May 2012 11:05:15 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47075 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SYZPW-0003Q0-8X for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sun, 27 May 2012 05:05:14 -0400 Original-Path: usenet.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!h10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.emacs,comp.lang.lisp Original-Lines: 72 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 76.126.112.84 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1338109287 2307 127.0.0.1 (27 May 2012 09:01:27 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 May 2012 09:01:27 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: h10g2000pbi.googlegroups.com; posting-host=76.126.112.84; posting-account=bRPKjQoAAACxZsR8_VPXCX27T2YcsyMA User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64) AppleWebKit/536.5 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/19.0.1084.52 Safari/536.5,gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: usenet.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:192606 comp.emacs:102492 comp.lang.lisp:310090 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:85012 Archived-At: Dear Thad Floryan, so, i read your long response. in summery, if i may: Thad Floryan wrote: > Circa 1965 I was using a TTY33ASR and it's control key was to the left > =85 > My next keyboard/terminal was a Datapoint 3300 which was essentially > =85 > I've been using Emacs since 1975 (getting my first copy from the Pentagon= , but, what is your point? Sure, you are a dinosaur, i'm sold on that. But if we are still having a reasonable debate, have you addressed any criticism i made about those who claim swapping Capslock/Ctrl is a good thing? Xah On May 26, 4:30=A0pm, Thad Floryan wrote: > On 5/26/2012 9:45 AM, Xah Lee wrote: > > > On May 26, 8:57 am, Dan Espen wrote: > >> Perhaps you should read more carefully. > > >> Thad remapped Caps Lock to ANOTHER Ctrl. > >> He didn't SWAP anything. > > > that doesn't matter. Those who use capslock for Ctrl basically only > > use that single key for Ctrl. > > And? =A0Given how ubiquitous a control key is within Emacs, it should > be easy to type, not requiring one to bend one's finger down to where > a [Ctrl] key is located beneath the left shift key on PC keyboards. > > When I started using computers in the early 1960s, we had to use cards. > > Circa 1965 I was using a TTY33ASR and it's control key was to the left > of [A]. =A0Several editors I was using back then (10 years before Emacs > existed) used the control key extensively to that the editor was truly > a WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get). > > My next keyboard/terminal was a Datapoint 3300 which was essentially > a "glass teletype" with the exact same keyboard layout at the TTY33ASR > with the [Ctrl] to the left of [A]. =A0That Datapoint 3300 was followed > by a Datamedia DT80 (a VT100 clone) whose [Ctrl] was also to the left > of [A]. > > All the AT&T and Sun computers I owned and used since then have had the > [Ctrl] to the left of [A] and all keyboards since then I've mapped the > [Caps Lock] to be another control key. > > I've been using Emacs since 1975 (getting my first copy from the Pentagon= , > a customer of mine at the time) and subsequent copies from MIT and RMS > including this copy of the Emacs manual that RMS handed me which is the > oldest one I found in my archives and I scanned years ago: > > =A0 =A0 > > I don't know what (apparent) misshapen hand you have, but having the > [Ctrl] to the left of [A] is comfortable and "natural" to me since > control characters are ubiquitous within Emacs and Bash. > > > [...] > > if you consider Capslock key useless, you can given it another > > function. > > Precisely. =A0Making the [Caps Lock] another [Ctrl] makes perfect > sense for anyone using Emacs and/or Bash.