From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Bikeshedding go! Why is unbound? Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:22:11 -0800 Message-ID: <7221D67ED52D4DCC9E90246FA42DA2C6@us.oracle.com> References: <87sjx7z7w4.fsf@telefonica.net> <83pqsbmf6j.fsf@gnu.org> <87k4ijz07h.fsf@telefonica.net> <2460D97DEA4047B3B9DF92C4A80981EF@us.oracle.com> <57BF13882D6E494286547F293FE9D03B@us.oracle.com> <87lj2pfo81.fsf@wanadoo.es> <846FACC9499A447287432A783EBC1ED1@us.oracle.com> <619E8C4B48F04150BAECB7F7700A8527@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1295288639 29724 80.91.229.12 (17 Jan 2011 18:23:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:23:59 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 'PJ Weisberg' , 'Emacs-Devel devel' To: "'Lennart Borgman'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jan 17 19:23:55 2011 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PetkB-0002ND-0a for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 19:23:55 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60834 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PetkA-00077m-DD for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:23:54 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=48250 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Petie-00068L-Do for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:22:21 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Petid-00086D-HB for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:22:20 -0500 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:51274) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Petid-000864-A8 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 13:22:19 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet15.oracle.com (acsinet15.oracle.com [141.146.126.227]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id p0HIMFdE004513 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:22:17 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt354.oracle.com (acsmt354.oracle.com [141.146.40.154]) by acsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id p0H5V1et029742; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:22:14 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt016.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 966275661295288532; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:22:12 -0800 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.222.85) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Mon, 17 Jan 2011 10:22:11 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 Thread-Index: Acu2ILAbdy5quMsASTmedJeulMGKWwAUAOQw X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:134656 Archived-At: > >> >=A0Should Emacs not "actively shadow" `C-c' or `C-d' or ... when > >> > launched from a shell, because those keys mean somthing to > >> > the shell? > > That is not what I meant by "shadow". > It is a similar situation but Emacs position is the master in this > case while the operating system is the master in the case we are > discussing. Define "master". You can certainly launch Emacs in background from a = shell, then kill it from the shell. So much for Emacs being in control of the = shell. Why shouldn't Emacs pass C-c or C-d through to the shell, by your logic? (Alt-F4 isn't OS, it's window mgr, though admittedly for Windows the two = are conflated.) What is the hierachy you see and how does it relate to key bindings? = There are several possible environments outside Emacs, all of which can have their = own key bindings. * shell where you invoke Emacs (C-c,...) * Window manager (Alt-F3,...) * OS * other outside apps with their "standard" keys (C-s, ...) * ... (?) Which ones should take precedence over Emacs when a key is unbound in = Emacs (pass-through)? Which ones should take precedence even if a key _is_ = bound in Emacs? I would say give Emacs users and libraries the choice whenever possible, including the choice to do nothing or to raise an unbound error for a = key that some outside environment might normally handle. If they choose to pass some things through to the outside or to mimic = particular outside (e.g. "standard") actions, so be it.