From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Jean-Christophe Helary Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Translating Emacs manuals is of strategic importance Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2024 06:13:03 +0000 Message-ID: <71CE52FF-41E1-400F-8B2E-06570F6199EC@traductaire-libre.org> References: <83mstp11sz.fsf@gnu.org> <91D00B9D-0057-4748-8C83-50E749FE3961@traductaire-libre.org> <835y0b29rk.fsf@gnu.org> <87r0iz3lx0.fsf@yahoo.com> <877ckqa6m5.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="17885"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Po Lu , Eli Zaretskii , =?utf-8?Q?Vincent_Bela=C3=AFche?= , emacs-devel@gnu.org, rms@gnu.org To: Stefan Kangas Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 04 09:22:08 2024 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1rLIzP-0004Hp-8k for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2024 09:22:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLIyS-0001QZ-R2; Thu, 04 Jan 2024 03:21:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLGze-00082M-Gs for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2024 01:14:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-4018.proton.ch ([185.70.40.18]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1rLGzb-0006zl-2q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 04 Jan 2024 01:14:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=traductaire-libre.org; s=protonmail; t=1704348847; x=1704608047; bh=nj3sfKnyh8CJX5NOI+F4u/Q0zRXkWSYDSIslMCwOz1U=; h=Date:To:From:Cc:Subject:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:References: Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date:Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID: Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=LLb2sHuaB0eb/aaRz577ExLsECU8E9c4FqZLYfOvKbvTOQo25i6aBFYaxLL62H62m XmXMwQ8vLwSPLwnpOCcFMD0cVzSoRZtqseByHtyl0rzM19MNy6u+LVA4qGe/tGx4DH bwLwCKnJGxWxSycimsL0LZQSCSXFJUJmqAybxyPtEfudBPQjt1sDc4Sz111SO92nak vYY03osG0EdUXs+8FyZfXO2W7ZK6+8NjJ0eG4XYu/fB0mZqEDP3j6JPaEy/x+zivy4 leuVtU8GHKJrd7M7rsySJOMiR9SccHis7v9NGQNwN3coTJ7eKBbCtKHD60UbM8R0cR L+3r5h/vvXFRw== In-Reply-To: Feedback-ID: 92162971:user:proton Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.70.40.18; envelope-from=jean.christophe.helary@traductaire-libre.org; helo=mail-4018.proton.ch X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 04 Jan 2024 03:21:03 -0500 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:314528 Archived-At: Thank you Stefan for Ccing this very interesting exchange. > On Jan 4, 2024, at 13:46, Stefan Kangas wrote: >=20 > I'm interested in hearing what people think about this, but if > Jean-Christophe and others intend to set up the relevant infrastructure > in emacs.git, I think we should try to encourage that. I=E2=80=99m hoping that Eli will see the benefit of the PO format, the way = it=20 is (currently) prepared by po4a, even if the Emacs and TexInfo projects=20 end up creating a different but relatively compatible tool/process. Using PO for the manuals will bring to the Emacs community a=20 considerable number of qualified and experienced free software=20 translator teams. It will also have the benefit of allowing the easy conversion of=20 already existing translations so that they can be provided to teams who=20 want to update them. > I do think it is important that we are careful to set things up in such > a way that the translating work isn't too disruptive for regular Emacs > development. Now that, thanks to Vincent, we have a location for the texi=20 translations, I think the next step is simply to make an announcement=20 about that (if I had known it would be that simple to actually get the=20 ball rolling, I would have proposed that a long time ago). If, after careful evaluation, a system that provides automatic po (or=20 equivalent) files is established, that would allow translator teams to=20 rely on Emacs infrastructure and provide an even better workflow for=20 teams, one similar to what they are used to in similar important free=20 software packages (I=E2=80=99m thinking of gnu/linux distribution=20 documentation, of LibreOffice, etc.) > Personally, I also would like to never have to see the > French translations in the course of my usage of Emacs: only users that > ask for it specifically, or use a French locale should see them. I have honestly no idea how to modify Emacs so that it offers a choice=20 of manual languages to users. But once the manuals are provided in texi=20 format and build into info files, they should be easy to install and=20 peruse by anybody (even if a tutorial maybe necessary). Also, I fully agree with you about the strategic importance of having=20 Emacs and the related manuals translated. Emacs is not anymore a=20 developer-only system and a considerable number of users who are not=20 scared of learning exotic tools would dive into it and write easy=20 automation thanks to the introduction to emacs lisp. That=E2=80=99s a huge= =20 chance for free software. --=20 Jean-Christophe Helary @jchelary@emacs.ch https://traductaire-libre.org https://mac4translators.blogspot.com https://sr.ht/~brandelune/omegat-as-a-book/