From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Reitter Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: describe-bindings: ^L, bad order, naming Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 09:33:06 +0000 Message-ID: <7150D5AA-9F07-4479-8173-E10251372C7F@gmail.com> References: <89DEE8B2-EA6A-4347-A9AB-D1B99C58E725@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: main.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v746.2) Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0393114933==" X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1131706405 24285 80.91.229.2 (11 Nov 2005 10:53:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Nov 2005 10:53:25 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 11 11:53:25 2005 Return-path: Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by ciao.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EaWTy-00034o-DM for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 11:50:10 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EaWTx-0001xe-Ls for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 05:50:09 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EaVHd-0001vu-KZ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 04:33:23 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1EaVHV-0001u4-Dl for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 04:33:17 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1EaVHS-0001tP-F7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 04:33:10 -0500 Original-Received: from [64.233.184.195] (helo=wproxy.gmail.com) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.34) id 1EaVHS-0003sf-C3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 04:33:10 -0500 Original-Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id i28so540949wra for ; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 01:33:09 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:message-id:cc:from:subject:date:to:x-mailer; b=Db+hIt2ktH/6jQyMm8gk5KUG+iSI9jXazJx0kcbmDaNt8aDyhKfHFX73nBhadPAtjIMji98U5VdTkXIPjG04KULdn6jof38ReLTFMLkdGDa00O0aUUcYQ1IrL0U9rLidlQcO7gYeOH1Rt5ixboT1EnNDfGT6mjRco8Zysc32cOU= Original-Received: by 10.64.10.8 with SMTP id 8mr2106816qbj; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 01:33:09 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from ?10.0.0.34? ( [82.13.31.46]) by mx.gmail.com with ESMTP id d12sm1492245qbc.2005.11.11.01.33.08; Fri, 11 Nov 2005 01:33:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: Original-To: Eli Zaretskii X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:45740 Archived-At: --===============0393114933== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-31-923048225; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" --Apple-Mail-31-923048225 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On 11 Nov 2005, at 08:47, Eli Zaretskii wrote: > The ^L is there so that one could use forward-page to quickly move to > the next group. That's great, but it shouldn't be displayed. > >> Isn't there a nicer way the groups can be separated? > > We could use overlays to display the ^L as something more visually > appealing, while leaving ^L in the buffer. Sounds like a complicated solution to me. But if that's the only way... > >> I also get a long list with latin key characters that are bound to >> encoded-kbd-self-insert-ccl. > > I think this is a bug. > >> As a novice user when trying out the describe-bindings function, I >> would see that there is a lot of uninteresting technical stuff at the >> beginning > > Please be more specific: what uninteresting technical stuff is there > at the beginning that you want to remove? the bug described before. > We could modify the help echo string to mention "shortcuts". I don't > think the name of the menu item itself should change, since this is > Emacs terminology, and newbies need to learn it as fast as possible. Unless newbies are successful at finding what they want (help on functions assigned to keys), there is no learning effect. They will just skip over "Key Bindings" if they don't know what a binding is. And sorry, the echo area is not enough. 1. It is not displayed on my system when going through the menus. 2. the echo area is far away from the menus (visually), and I wouldn't be used to check it anyways when going through menus. Menu strings have to be self explanatory. I think a useful compromise would be "Keyboard Commands". I don't think that this is inconsistent with Emacs terminology. >> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 >> Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; >> name=smime.p7s >> Content-Disposition: attachment; >> filename=smime.p7s > > Could you please drop this signature stuff? It's very long and thus > annoying. TIA. It's an attachment and shouldn't be displayed on your screen. Most mail readers will display "signed". This uses the S/MIME standard, which is fairly wide-spread. I support encrypted e-mail and electronic signatures. You can get a free X.509 certificate (an open standard) at Thawte, and if you meet me in person one day and bring your passport, I can even notarize your certificate for you. --Apple-Mail-31-923048225 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGOzCCAvQw ggJdoAMCAQICAw3xWjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQQFADBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhh d3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVt YWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwHhcNMDUwMjAxMjM0NTA0WhcNMDYwMjAxMjM0NTA0WjBiMRAwDgYDVQQE EwdSZWl0dGVyMQ4wDAYDVQQqEwVEYXZpZDEWMBQGA1UEAxMNRGF2aWQgUmVpdHRlcjEmMCQGCSqG SIb3DQEJARYXZGF2aWQucmVpdHRlckBnbWFpbC5jb20wggEiMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBAQUAA4IBDwAw ggEKAoIBAQDhuoehK+SM/uai1CMVwn3NgRTTwqPpEBKKrr0RKTwxn+B9KFHUK033x4cV1zF4NsHx t8OG7uk25ZRnBdf2xGC4Dmz2LiGKKhps+EkGzxFuKA3Q8WbXv7stEsS1ALl/mapcaOXTukzKGcu9 wYFpmSi+PMc/61Th7A9T3bBNQcC2rKuILcaB3GM4ajekoEKFEPx/sTtMhGOLLwb5JcrWhxD0ADIA S1woY1PS3BJ4YTzPPkZMul46s7riV6CPd2gjnSn2aGvgXHTOHz7tOWmD4phVZ/THQ7nGLnIPy7gi HfXKvJ3IlM2NcHrgAGMNHaDwSWkdNdNhFe2rsoGTvLRF/fXVAgMBAAGjNDAyMCIGA1UdEQQbMBmB F2RhdmlkLnJlaXR0ZXJAZ21haWwuY29tMAwGA1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEA QxQdE8kyJWkgofiVLxnFYttKuNAkgP0vumRW7Jxc93TX56z3Y6j0pZiYFQcTOYkjdWFsPUSDdnIl X26P8/ZiCDosSNAeXHaizmoNjl+RkopgKxC7Th6hY0ZrEC5e0733wzeB8O8L05JX1x7KSMrjjX/s i5F5LSZMRP+o63kulIQwggM/MIICqKADAgECAgENMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMIHRMQswCQYDVQQG EwJaQTEVMBMGA1UECBMMV2VzdGVybiBDYXBlMRIwEAYDVQQHEwlDYXBlIFRvd24xGjAYBgNVBAoT EVRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nMSgwJgYDVQQLEx9DZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIFNlcnZpY2VzIERpdmlz aW9uMSQwIgYDVQQDExtUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgQ0ExKzApBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEW HHBlcnNvbmFsLWZyZWVtYWlsQHRoYXd0ZS5jb20wHhcNMDMwNzE3MDAwMDAwWhcNMTMwNzE2MjM1 OTU5WjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRk LjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0EwgZ8wDQYJKoZI hvcNAQEBBQADgY0AMIGJAoGBAMSmPFVzVftOucqZWh5owHUEcJ3f6f+jHuy9zfVb8hp2vX8MOmHy v1HOAdTlUAow1wJjWiyJFXCO3cnwK4Vaqj9xVsuvPAsH5/EfkTYkKhPPK9Xzgnc9A74r/rsYPge/ QIACZNenprufZdHFKlSFD0gEf6e20TxhBEAeZBlyYLf7AgMBAAGjgZQwgZEwEgYDVR0TAQH/BAgw BgEB/wIBADBDBgNVHR8EPDA6MDigNqA0hjJodHRwOi8vY3JsLnRoYXd0ZS5jb20vVGhhd3RlUGVy c29uYWxGcmVlbWFpbENBLmNybDALBgNVHQ8EBAMCAQYwKQYDVR0RBCIwIKQeMBwxGjAYBgNVBAMT EVByaXZhdGVMYWJlbDItMTM4MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAA4GBAEiM0VCD6gsuzA2jZqxnD3+vrL7C F6FDlpSdf0whuPg2H6otnzYvwPQcUCCTcDz9reFhYsPZOhl+hLGZGwDFGguCdJ4lUJRix9sncVcl jd2pnDmOjCBPZV+V2vf3h9bGCE6u9uo05RAaWzVNd+NWIXiC3CEZNd4ksdMdRv9dX2VPMYIC5zCC AuMCAQEwaTBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkg THRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECAw3xWjAJ BgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBUzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcBMBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0w NTExMTEwOTMzMDdaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBTrilBmKlZozGjF+Rd5UzfXcUXoQDB4BgkrBgEE AYI3EAQxazBpMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5 KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIDDfFa MHoGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMWugaTBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1 bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3Vp bmcgQ0ECAw3xWjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAASCAQC+Bk13B5qZSY34rjT/Uz6ReuZuRhN6RLvz57PR bYrZAoRzjIjGqACSvOqhmJVUG66vbdFMKa1Ajz7lBIv2Cj870uZIIBt7hlCiCp8eTzSd4D73Y3ak qVpDbifhxRbpq3Xjg5ZsSqCBmrRX5knKmtZQik7RiM7y3HfzKnAFjh5RSrjAETMMNq6ozh1kr1Ay Edkh0jV+QlHx3EiI5MfJqMogts1IN66RAFpGqaDz6PunF53CNRGKuBb0bIw44rq8vd/ACV3xwicI X9Gnb2UubmSZv75G7o2lIjudC0O7kW81WeGl3LzlebtYpxseztZbA7uU/SM4CxeX1GLCVv/CqYyM AAAAAAAA --Apple-Mail-31-923048225-- --===============0393114933== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ Emacs-devel mailing list Emacs-devel@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/emacs-devel --===============0393114933==--