From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Visit New File menu item Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2016 17:11:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <70ece5e6-c87f-4cc6-af91-10433a70d374@default> References: <56E5F9C6.40305@alice.it> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457914331 8718 80.91.229.3 (14 Mar 2016 00:12:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2016 00:12:11 +0000 (UTC) To: Angelo Graziosi , Emacs developers Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Mar 14 01:11:59 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1afG73-0003FE-T1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 14 Mar 2016 01:11:58 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38234 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afG73-00045F-9R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 20:11:57 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57882) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afG6o-00044x-LD for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 20:11:43 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afG6l-0006rJ-ER for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 20:11:42 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:25904) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1afG6l-0006r7-6t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 13 Mar 2016 20:11:39 -0400 Original-Received: from aserv0022.oracle.com (aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2E0BYCv029217 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 14 Mar 2016 00:11:35 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by aserv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2E0BYMk032008 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 14 Mar 2016 00:11:34 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0012.oracle.com (abhmp0012.oracle.com [141.146.116.18]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2E0BXTT027111; Mon, 14 Mar 2016 00:11:33 GMT In-Reply-To: <56E5F9C6.40305@alice.it> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0022.oracle.com [141.146.126.234] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201658 Archived-At: > > Also, such changes should be discussed more thoroughly, waiting for > > interested parties to chime in. E.g., one problem with "New File" is > > that we don't actually enforce the "new" part -- you can visit an > > existing file via that menu item. Not sure how important this nit is, > > but OTOH that single word "Visit" is also hardly so very important > > that we should rush making the change overnight. >=20 > Well said! >=20 > My opinion is that "New File" is wrong if linked to the sequence "C-x C-f= ". >=20 > Usually, I use "C-x C-f" both for loading ("visiting") an existing file > in Emacs both to create a new file (not existing!). >=20 > Notice that other applications which have "New File" mean really a *new* > (i.e. creating) file. Usually they have "C-N" for "New File" and "C-O" > for "Open File". So using "New File" in Emacs seems misleading, unless > you use a different key sequence for New/Open File. >=20 > Really I would remove the "Open File" item and would leave "Visit File" > (without New), with the obvious key sequence "C-x C-f". >=20 > Why don't you like "Visit"? Why you want to follow others giving up the > original tradition of Emacs? >=20 > Anyway this is only my opinion. IIRC, all of this was hashed over in the older thread that I mentioned could usefully serve as a starting point for a new discussion (and it other threads before that one, IIRC). I believe that I recall each of the things that you and Eli have said, as well as everything that others have said so far, already having been said before. We should try to add to the previous discussion or move beyond it, not just repeat it. That said, I am glad that you have said what you did. I just wish that folks would take a look at previous discussions of this - especially those who would like to propose a change. So far, the proposed changes are not new, and the reasons given for them are not new.