From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: =?UTF-8?Q?Andreas_R=c3=b6hler?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs popular again with a video Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 09:50:39 +0200 Message-ID: <70bb51fd-447d-928c-4d69-1c9673a44471@online.de> References: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="20527"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 Cc: Nathan Colinet To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat May 09 09:51:28 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jXKGd-0005Gc-SQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 09:51:27 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:55368 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXKGc-0004TP-D6 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 03:51:26 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:40880) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXKFz-0003nn-Uw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 03:50:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.kundenserver.de ([217.72.192.73]:44277) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jXKFy-0004Ev-Az for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 09 May 2020 03:50:47 -0400 Original-Received: from [192.168.43.250] ([46.114.33.27]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue106 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MfI21-1ivoqI4AAd-00gr3n; Sat, 09 May 2020 09:50:42 +0200 In-Reply-To: <5230692c-c665-a330-7a12-e59fa25d97dd@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-US X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:jIMSczdrMt1Gvw0+KGhV6rj6x9BzrAfwk1SdUKQVY63+J/I3iA6 hs1TcWaQkgdu/ajprvEfiTg4Pej3i9Htxv6/kwW+rtEl1lVII6bsTV/qK2IUghELW/93D4z JzuRgGoyYPZPkdrxnMMTQHFd+BiHgF6lg5Cd88XDx5wajO7SKYrzdiS9wczdaKmlmuUubv9 gXuhVNLLOmr0I+K7kWKXA== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Auc6qrixS2M=:0qbXAcpvriTXEBUFIkXztS 6aV8D5mAyg5Ghw77pNDdB9OcvOqSqyIe5A02Pcrw+7nCf99jvBSDKVgYGcEK7echeky1fAJ6f lo86N5WUBi/+yVq5YoYo4NJGmwi4FjQQR85nftFfVejJgjHOCLKFcSynCdCejq42IjD1Y+pN3 LRd3rcwAzvU2IO5yf2htneQzIuHfHKvL7KnNkYexpRpbFJalCZX7e1MehT3BrROoXc6+duO2Y ZhXvA0ic4T/K1YPCgK/9er9m0anhFk7q3UJ/jyHrG9zJA0Yb7vrIwkjMM8WYybdYk0zE8OSzj +tTwDkboWvPOrZL2XlSLIFHQk712RS7h4dV3mbvO/0rh+6zh0mH58fNHMI3w02LekgeXirkIj aHbfJ6DDXOAgPVqa2HSbKLKfNu9kNy4nHJlYaKJNzSlwtXlgNiI93gklfznQLfu/4JEW6V6Gy hIPYuzeSJs9CV7Jll9Ba4l7dT/acIUljHOMl698uWYXHr3blhtz346yHcbwnGXEVL9c0frXeY qzGI8HJpT3JIkl7iZwf3Uy3xcfF1p9t9JyctIRK6+eoRJzHAjo9WyWGqTkvtCPyElgiq2Arke rMvh2D6UZqirHpqGBPxos/XkjyV+wc9Ooo095oDk6rKpGYVV19M5qr50X9OS42OPlrYAMptO6 /AAhNZ5ll4XhRsLSRUft2fThq201l31KBmJFk2flTqxAOoHTt9OMG9dk3Z7XHmBJCmZ7e1X6C oxZ/SkTSiFr6ms6zVdAFe33sgU2n65P0sLgANCc8ks+O6bIIEgv7SLHYkC2JyqBezMG0q+3G Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.72.192.73; envelope-from=andreas.roehler@online.de; helo=mout.kundenserver.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/09 03:50:43 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:249368 Archived-At: Am 08.05.20 um 10:26 schrieb Nathan Colinet: > Hello, > > I read on the mailing list that you're looking for a way to make Emacs > popular again. I thought I could share my idea. > > I started using emacs a year ago and when I started everything was > really confusing, what is a frame, what is a buffer, how to install > packages, what are major and minor modes, etc.. I wanted to give up but > then I saw a 1 hour talk about Emacs that shows how powerful it is. Then > I was hooked. Unfortunately the sound was no good at all and it was way > too long. I think it could be really benefic for emacs to have a 5-10 > minutes video that would present Emacs not as an old obscure porgram but > as an amazing fresh looking tool that drastically improves efficiency. I > think people nowadays need an out-of-the-box experience, that's why > promoting doom-emacs or spacemacs might be better than the default Emacs. > > I think if the video is well realised it could really be a huge win. > > Stay safe and well, > > Nathan Colinet > > > Hi, thanks bringing that up. Agree such a video might be helpful. The reasons however, why Emacs is a kind of niche nowadays are multiple and complex. Leaving apart all items Emacs itself can't change, there is something which can be done IMO: making Emacs ready for a beginner in programming resp. for non-programmers. Make Emacs appear mannerly as just an editor first. Which also means: at the beginning leave apart all complex stuff useful for advanced programmers only. For instance at "Introduction" fairly everything in first paragraphs IMHO may be dropped resp. should be moved at later sections. Copy stuff below for the convenience of the reader here. All the day enjoying Emacs, Andreas Copy: Introduction ************ You are reading about GNU Emacs, the GNU incarnation of the advanced, self-documenting, customizable, extensible editor Emacs. (The ‘G’ in GNU (GNU’s Not Unix) is not silent.) We call Emacs “advanced” because it can do much more than simple insertion and deletion of text. It can control subprocesses, indent programs automatically, show multiple files at once, edit remote files like they were local files, and more. Emacs editing commands operate in terms of characters, words, lines, sentences, paragraphs, and pages, as well as expressions and comments in various programming languages. “Self-documenting” means that at any time you can use special commands, known as “help commands”, to find out what your options are, or to find out what any command does, or to find all the commands that pertain to a given topic. *Note Help::. “Customizable” means that you can easily alter the behavior of Emacs commands in simple ways. For instance, if you use a programming language in which comments start with ‘<**’ and end with ‘**>’, you can tell the Emacs comment manipulation commands to use those strings (*note Comments::). To take another example, you can rebind the basic cursor motion commands (up, down, left and right) to any keys on the keyboard that you find comfortable. *Note Customization::.