* bug#37925: 26.3; Elisp manual: add index entry for sets/kinds of variables [not found] ` <<838sp8vvjx.fsf@gnu.org> @ 2019-10-26 15:41 ` Drew Adams 2019-10-26 16:26 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2019-10-26 15:41 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii, Drew Adams; +Cc: 37925 > > Please consider adding index entries that correspond directly to > > these node names. A user should be able to do, for example (and > > preferably with or without the hyphen): > > > > i mode-line variables > > > > Today that's not possible. > > Yes, it is possible today, because each variable is indexed by its > name. So, for example "i mode-line TAB" will show the list of all the > variables (and some other related topics as well). That's not the "it" that I said is not possible. That's an way to find something different: information about a specific variable, known or recognized as such. > In general, the technique of working with index entries that I > recommend is to try the text you thought about initially, in this case > "mode-line variables", and if that doesn't bring anything useful, > remove some text from the end and try again, with TAB. (That is > assuming the above text is something you really thought about in some > real-life use case, and not a synthetic example of no practical > importance.) You're missing the point, I think. You focus on `mode-line' because each of the mode-line variables has prefix `mode-line' in its name. That's not true of some of the other kinds of variables covered (by kind) in nodes: list, generalized, constant, output... Some come close, and TAB with just the first part would suffice for them. Others do not - `list', for example. Please read the bug title (and body). It's about the nodes for different "sets/kinds of variables". It's not just about mode-line variables. Not only that. If you're interested in knowing about mode-line variables, and you don't know what they are, or even if there are any, their individual names as entries won't help you much, because the names aren't identified in the index entries as _variable_ names. In a real (e.g. book) index, an entry such as `mode-line-remote' would be followed by ", variable". That's done for entry `mode-line-format, a frame parameter'. But it's not done for `mode-line-format' (a variable). Beyond all of that, it's not obvious that there even are nodes that talk about particular kinds of variables. Part of this problem would be alleviated by having index entries that start with `variable' for the various kinds covered by their own nodes: variables, list variables, completion variables, generalized ... These are the only index entries that start with `variable': variable variable aliases variable definition variable descriptions variable limit error variable watchpoints variable with constant value variable write debugging variable, buffer-local variable-documentation property variable-width spaces Those don't take you to a node that covers variables of a given kind, except for `variable with a constant value' and `variable, buffer-local'. > Please consider describing use cases where the name of the variable, > or the results of TAB as above, will not let the user arrive to the > place where he or she needs to be. Otherwise, what you ask for is to > provide one more index entry that begins like many others we already > have and points to the same place, something that is not useful, and > we therefore avoid it. See above. For example, `i list TAB' will not show you anything that suggests a node about list variables. It won't get you to node `List Variables'. And no, entries such as what I suggest do not "begin like many others we already have and point to the same place". See above. If there's already an entry that does that, then no entry need be added for it. That's the case for buffer-local variables: we have entries `variable, buffer-local' and `buffer-local variables'. It's not the case in general. And BTW, we have these entries, which go to 3 different nodes. They're not distinguished at the level of entries (except for the 2nd one). buffer-local variables buffer-local variables in modes buffer-local-variables It would be clearer if the last one were called `buffer-local-variables, function'. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* bug#37925: 26.3; Elisp manual: add index entry for sets/kinds of variables 2019-10-26 15:41 ` bug#37925: 26.3; Elisp manual: add index entry for sets/kinds of variables Drew Adams @ 2019-10-26 16:26 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-10-26 16:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 37925 > Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 08:41:59 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> > Cc: 37925@debbugs.gnu.org > > > > Please consider adding index entries that correspond directly to > > > these node names. A user should be able to do, for example (and > > > preferably with or without the hyphen): > > > > > > i mode-line variables > > > > > > Today that's not possible. > > > > Yes, it is possible today, because each variable is indexed by its > > name. So, for example "i mode-line TAB" will show the list of all the > > variables (and some other related topics as well). > > That's not the "it" that I said is not possible. > That's an way to find something different: > information about a specific variable, known or > recognized as such. Why isn't that enough? > > In general, the technique of working with index entries that I > > recommend is to try the text you thought about initially, in this case > > "mode-line variables", and if that doesn't bring anything useful, > > remove some text from the end and try again, with TAB. (That is > > assuming the above text is something you really thought about in some > > real-life use case, and not a synthetic example of no practical > > importance.) > > You're missing the point, I think. You focus on > `mode-line' because each of the mode-line variables > has prefix `mode-line' in its name. That's not true > of some of the other kinds of variables covered (by > kind) in nodes: list, generalized, constant, output... I took mode-line because that was your example. The bug report in its entirety is not useful because it lumps together several (too many) sections that are almost certainly unrelated, in terms of why there is no index entry that you decided were necessary. These matters should be always considered on a case by case basis. > Please read the bug title (and body). I had, please don't make nasty assumptions, and if you do, please have the courtesy of keeping them to yourself. > Not only that. If you're interested in knowing > about mode-line variables, and you don't know > what they are, or even if there are any, their > individual names as entries won't help you much, > because the names aren't identified in the index > entries as _variable_ names. Why would I want to know about mode-line variables as a group? That subsection is a hodgepodge of unrelated variables, with nothing to keep them together. What is the use case for me to want to see all of them? > > Please consider describing use cases where the name of the variable, > > or the results of TAB as above, will not let the user arrive to the > > place where he or she needs to be. Otherwise, what you ask for is to > > provide one more index entry that begins like many others we already > > have and points to the same place, something that is not useful, and > > we therefore avoid it. > > See above. For example, `i list TAB' will > not show you anything that suggests a node > about list variables. It won't get you to > node `List Variables'. OK, let's take this example. For starters, there are no "list variables" in Emacs. The section's name is "Modifying List Variables", which is something else entirely. This section has the following index entries: @cindex modify a list @cindex list modification In addition, each function described in the section is indexed by its name. Why would we want to add to that an index entry "list variables", if it has nothing to do with the section's contents or even its name? So please look at each section separately, read its content, and then tell what index entries you think are missing, and why, and please do that separately for each section. Arguing about missing index entries from _node_names_, just because they all end in "Variables", is the wrong way. > And BTW, we have these entries, which go to > 3 different nodes. They're not distinguished > at the level of entries (except for the 2nd > one). > > buffer-local variables > buffer-local variables in modes > buffer-local-variables They are all different entries, so what's wrong with them? Also, how is this related to the subject of this bug report? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* bug#37925: 26.3; Elisp manual: add index entry for sets/kinds of variables @ 2019-10-25 19:43 Drew Adams 2019-10-26 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread From: Drew Adams @ 2019-10-25 19:43 UTC (permalink / raw) To: 37925 These nodes are about particular kinds of variables: * Buffer-Local Variables * Completion Variables * Condition Variables * Connection Local Variables * Constant Variables * Directory Local Variables * File Local Variables * Generalized Variables * Global Variables * List Variables * List Variables * Local Variables * Mode Line Variables * Other Font Lock Variables * Output Variables * Variables with Restricted Values * Void Variables * Warning Variables Likewise, for options: * Warning Options * Choosing Window Options * Edebug Options * Network Options Please consider adding index entries that correspond directly to these node names. A user should be able to do, for example (and preferably with or without the hyphen): i mode-line variables Today that's not possible. --- [Additional remark: The node names are not consistent wrt compound adjectives. `Buffer-Local' is the only such that uses a hyphen. It's better to be consistent. (Even better might be to always use a hyphen.)] In GNU Emacs 26.3 (build 1, x86_64-w64-mingw32) of 2019-08-29 Repository revision: 96dd0196c28bc36779584e47fffcca433c9309cd Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 10.0.17763 Configured using: `configure --without-dbus --host=x86_64-w64-mingw32 --without-compress-install 'CFLAGS=-O2 -static -g3'' ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
* bug#37925: 26.3; Elisp manual: add index entry for sets/kinds of variables 2019-10-25 19:43 Drew Adams @ 2019-10-26 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2019-10-26 7:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Drew Adams; +Cc: 37925 tags 37925 wishlist moreinfo thanks > Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2019 12:43:40 -0700 (PDT) > From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com> > > Please consider adding index entries that correspond directly to these > node names. A user should be able to do, for example (and preferably > with or without the hyphen): > > i mode-line variables > > Today that's not possible. Yes, it is possible today, because each variable is indexed by its name. So, for example "i mode-line TAB" will show the list of all the variables (and some other related topics as well). In general, the technique of working with index entries that I recommend is to try the text you thought about initially, in this case "mode-line variables", and if that doesn't bring anything useful, remove some text from the end and try again, with TAB. (That is assuming the above text is something you really thought about in some real-life use case, and not a synthetic example of no practical importance.) Please consider describing use cases where the name of the variable, or the results of TAB as above, will not let the user arrive to the place where he or she needs to be. Otherwise, what you ask for is to provide one more index entry that begins like many others we already have and points to the same place, something that is not useful, and we therefore avoid it. Thanks. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2019-10-26 16:26 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 4+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- [not found] <<d6f4fc56-a426-4e0a-8c87-81622f222294@default> [not found] ` <<838sp8vvjx.fsf@gnu.org> 2019-10-26 15:41 ` bug#37925: 26.3; Elisp manual: add index entry for sets/kinds of variables Drew Adams 2019-10-26 16:26 ` Eli Zaretskii 2019-10-25 19:43 Drew Adams 2019-10-26 7:02 ` Eli Zaretskii
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