From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#37925: 26.3; Elisp manual: add index entry for sets/kinds of variables Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 08:41:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6ead854d-970c-43b0-a799-9d0082fd35ba@default> References: <> <<838sp8vvjx.fsf@gnu.org>> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="113362"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" Cc: 37925@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 26 17:43:14 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1iOODg-000TM6-6b for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 17:43:12 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:40576 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iOODe-0001HI-EI for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 11:43:10 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55894) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1iOODX-0001H7-Bb for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 11:43:04 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iOODW-0000Ap-12 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 11:43:03 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.43]:60762) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1iOODV-0000Al-Tv for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 11:43:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOODV-0000zN-Ox for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 11:43:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2019 15:43:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 37925 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: moreinfo Original-Received: via spool by 37925-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B37925.15721045353739 (code B ref 37925); Sat, 26 Oct 2019 15:43:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 37925) by debbugs.gnu.org; 26 Oct 2019 15:42:15 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:41350 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOOCl-0000yF-DS for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 11:42:15 -0400 Original-Received: from userp2120.oracle.com ([156.151.31.85]:37774) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1iOOCi-0000xz-RY for 37925@debbugs.gnu.org; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 11:42:13 -0400 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (userp2120.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by userp2120.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x9QFYMka177742; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 15:42:06 GMT DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=oracle.com; h=mime-version : message-id : date : from : sender : to : cc : subject : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding; s=corp-2019-08-05; bh=0rJ78Fx0sk+2FQaMg5D3DQzRvLxfxwSprNAMlhffH/8=; b=N720/p3bm4CA4Y42wfyCJ0bd91R3IZB1TtOhqAezuHi2F0nEpbyrOqbxF7b5F5q0slbv WaoHeS9Wjnpg7ymxc7BNqdSvGMmJ+tK/3vVLN+BgJCRdWjkvHDj2wUSZA45J0GCT6t9z JmDsBFvYCYlst53VXOEv9yNY0ak0Hy9TihuvdDU2QNNLo8Hu1zebPveK6GJkoxSvIo2j Sjb+lIVVIrP0wmp9y3miMJ+35+lwRRQmw6g0pSqDOy1VTBqPQtDAom1ZaQNoxQc88KP0 NaLhrlBfu+a8wnqVF0gJivDolkz0EwMnXLh/Nryq/9OGPNWW3Bz+OmGyXKUxdIinaMGD 0w== Original-Received: from aserp3030.oracle.com (aserp3030.oracle.com [141.146.126.71]) by userp2120.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2vvesr2gr3-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 26 Oct 2019 15:42:06 +0000 Original-Received: from pps.filterd (aserp3030.oracle.com [127.0.0.1]) by aserp3030.oracle.com (8.16.0.27/8.16.0.27) with SMTP id x9QFcVk3128042; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 15:42:05 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by aserp3030.oracle.com with ESMTP id 2vvc6nk3re-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 26 Oct 2019 15:42:05 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0003.oracle.com (abhmp0003.oracle.com [141.146.116.9]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id x9QFg0aw004151; Sat, 26 Oct 2019 15:42:04 GMT In-Reply-To: <<838sp8vvjx.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4900.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9422 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1910260158 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9422 signatures=668685 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1908290000 definitions=main-1910260158 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:170205 Archived-At: > > Please consider adding index entries that correspond directly to > > these node names. A user should be able to do, for example (and > > preferably with or without the hyphen): > > > > i mode-line variables > > > > Today that's not possible. >=20 > Yes, it is possible today, because each variable is indexed by its > name. So, for example "i mode-line TAB" will show the list of all the > variables (and some other related topics as well). That's not the "it" that I said is not possible. That's an way to find something different: information about a specific variable, known or recognized as such. > In general, the technique of working with index entries that I > recommend is to try the text you thought about initially, in this case > "mode-line variables", and if that doesn't bring anything useful, > remove some text from the end and try again, with TAB. (That is > assuming the above text is something you really thought about in some > real-life use case, and not a synthetic example of no practical > importance.) You're missing the point, I think. You focus on `mode-line' because each of the mode-line variables has prefix `mode-line' in its name. That's not true of some of the other kinds of variables covered (by kind) in nodes: list, generalized, constant, output... Some come close, and TAB with just the first part would suffice for them. Others do not - `list', for example. Please read the bug title (and body). It's about the nodes for different "sets/kinds of variables". It's not just about mode-line variables. Not only that. If you're interested in knowing about mode-line variables, and you don't know what they are, or even if there are any, their individual names as entries won't help you much, because the names aren't identified in the index entries as _variable_ names. In a real (e.g. book) index, an entry such as `mode-line-remote' would be followed by ", variable". That's done for entry `mode-line-format, a frame parameter'. But it's not done for `mode-line-format' (a variable). Beyond all of that, it's not obvious that there even are nodes that talk about particular kinds of variables. Part of this problem would be alleviated by having index entries that start with `variable' for the various kinds covered by their own nodes: variables, list variables, completion variables, generalized ... These are the only index entries that start with `variable': variable variable aliases variable definition variable descriptions=20 variable limit error variable watchpoints variable with constant value=20 variable write debugging variable, buffer-local variable-documentation property=20 variable-width spaces Those don't take you to a node that covers variables of a given kind, except for `variable with a constant value' and `variable, buffer-local'. > Please consider describing use cases where the name of the variable, > or the results of TAB as above, will not let the user arrive to the > place where he or she needs to be. Otherwise, what you ask for is to > provide one more index entry that begins like many others we already > have and points to the same place, something that is not useful, and > we therefore avoid it. See above. For example, `i list TAB' will not show you anything that suggests a node about list variables. It won't get you to node `List Variables'. And no, entries such as what I suggest do not "begin like many others we already have and point to the same place". See above. If there's already an entry that does that, then no entry need be added for it. That's the case for buffer-local variables: we have entries `variable, buffer-local' and `buffer-local variables'. It's not the case in general. And BTW, we have these entries, which go to 3 different nodes. They're not distinguished at the level of entries (except for the 2nd one). buffer-local variables buffer-local variables in modes buffer-local-variables It would be clearer if the last one were called `buffer-local-variables, function'.