From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#24085: 25.1.50; `make-frame' given `top' param creates frame with ~10x smaller `top' Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 09:36:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6e71e0fd-fa33-4e8d-bdb0-b1af73024faf@default> References: <<<<<0bfd2e8d-9d9b-4737-a637-5175eaaf41c0@default> <57987CBA.2060405@gmx.at>>>>> <<<<<3657859c-03f1-4eca-9a78-a9be0dee6552@default>>>>> <<<<<83h9bbrqx5.fsf@gnu.org>>>>> <<<<06a3fb2a-b975-41cf-8aa3-c2cbe207057f@default>>>> <<<<838twnrngr.fsf@gnu.org>>>> <<<325b79e8-c40b-46f7-a89a-11f0888b0a68@default>>> <<<8360rqsy7i.fsf@gnu.org>>> <<6336b8b4-49c0-4ce6-9044-cf558f12c16e@default>> <<8337mtsu54.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1469723852 25480 80.91.229.3 (28 Jul 2016 16:37:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:37:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 24085@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii , Drew Adams Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 28 18:37:18 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1bSoJB-0001nH-4W for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; 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Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:36:35 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0014.oracle.com (abhmp0014.oracle.com [141.146.116.20]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id u6SGaYEU028917; Thu, 28 Jul 2016 16:36:35 GMT In-Reply-To: <<8337mtsu54.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: aserv0021.oracle.com [141.146.126.233] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:121633 Archived-At: > > I think (hope) you are saying that there is no good argument for > > not respecting PARAMETERS, but because of the previous, low-level fix, > > that's unfortunately where we are today. In that case, let's please > > try to do better. If `set-frame-parameter' can in a sense "override" > > or work around that low-level dictation of frame positioning, then > > I imagine it should be possible for `make-frame' to do the same. >=20 > The problem is not only technical, it's also a problem of our intent. > Do we _want_ to let frames have their echo area obscured? I certainly do. I have commands that rely on it, including commands that incrementally move frames around (e.g., holding a key pressed moves a frame right, left, up, or down, incrementally), and they wrap around the display or from one monitor to another. And a frame does not necessarily even have an echo area. None of my frames do, apart from my standalone minibuffer frame. Basic Emacs functions should not be DWIM. A user or code should definitely be able to position a frame anywhere. Similarly, we have the ability to make frames invisible. Would you take that away, using as argument that a user cannot see the echo area on such a frame? > If not, then the fact that set-frame-parameter allows that would be > a bug that needs to be fixed. Sheesh. Maybe I'd better stop filing bug reports, if when I do so it encourages you to remove some other longstanding Emacs feature I use.