From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Opaque objects and Emacs documentation Date: Tue, 21 Jul 2020 13:14:16 +0300 Message-ID: <6d5c2ee4-ebba-8050-3195-2a3cf38ecb3e@yandex.ru> References: <6edffb7d-7708-534f-93ad-bf9180f5e0ed@yandex.ru> <835zamjsvk.fsf@gnu.org> <831rlajock.fsf@gnu.org> <1fcdc463-b3ab-2d32-31d7-904783ae0d81@yandex.ru> <83y2nii6sk.fsf@gnu.org> <69716ecb-8984-23e0-8b44-322ea3582384@yandex.ru> <20200721085735.GA446@tuxteam.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="8968"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 To: tomas@tuxteam.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 21 12:15:14 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jxpIo-0002Cp-Rm for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 12:15:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46250 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jxpIn-0006ey-Od for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 06:15:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52148) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jxpHy-0006ED-RT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 06:14:22 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-ed1-x52c.google.com ([2a00:1450:4864:20::52c]:40885) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jxpHx-0000in-4q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 06:14:22 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-ed1-x52c.google.com with SMTP id b15so14882405edy.7 for ; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 03:14:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=nS5fxR0ZjiQf+ZGwWdqsO6ji2WyueFfaoTABFy26YqM=; b=Wp2vUHorfwrXjHWidJhh+MSyWfYbTvPmOqggB4SFjIeZjNzpg6n7Yb04q93hXhOGX9 gRrJVvfTmnEdHcKtt0cHcmsNW7WekGsdszoSXCoWSgT+eWzcC+c2uUukZyItamq+KgXf 4t8WLeqDcEx4EkC1AJS+XrSGq2wn8Hmgpj/iuuJxW4yYhDZBWN2+XModwPoGyLKaiV36 vdH2XxP+gzqVEvtkRv/udNSgN+OUNCd8YWVOxoPmWQze4P3Xw7XzraVvxnTmPGPj0B+S czaGYOR9PM2/B77g+QDL4FnoQN+riKmyxnCV4CQfOZG6Wmn1WkYOqj4mAJ8HtiAhW/Et KNAg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:subject:to:references:from:message-id :date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nS5fxR0ZjiQf+ZGwWdqsO6ji2WyueFfaoTABFy26YqM=; b=DvVRFqey0atTY/Lt+g0++HWHTuqS4fmswOjOUlqQp0YWFvILw9KNf8s8WVuvtfdNZ9 AXIHe/oYci8K2V0R2UqL3QIBE+zqVLDDBcI5KwuTHxeMcue6feB1P/ccr5gNL0kf4PST yypaoxL5zMInuwLxI+gTgiK8C80b7orzucliCTmkTiTAMFZImD4yZqdT4TQIccf/+h1B sn14eFYr3mXqSKL8D8uAzggNzy2Lax8ywsl/7BCottC1BuZsuVTfRSpms6pS1mBz/mT3 3lQlrOEKYpSV08urx9+SCc/5/LN2urv3hWDz/nahO3sIdhVyIcs9D+ynlxkj8ANIFiJG fhAw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Fy2ZzethL77CbQ3RhA62wZlILU3FwUB1iagu8NDVD0ABvLszV 6oeTbaxKTwzptSWfI4DEI6o0bHJ6 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyAiPE/cwS/SMdbzfsbv6Ib4LrWtwPqf1jPt+jkAhERtziTy23CvW1hf82UXT8Jc8amZHLZ+g== X-Received: by 2002:a50:fb93:: with SMTP id e19mr24595523edq.106.1595326459167; Tue, 21 Jul 2020 03:14:19 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [192.168.0.3] ([66.205.73.129]) by smtp.googlemail.com with ESMTPSA id jo25sm16309032ejb.116.2020.07.21.03.14.17 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 21 Jul 2020 03:14:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20200721085735.GA446@tuxteam.de> Content-Language: en-US Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::52c; envelope-from=raaahh@gmail.com; helo=mail-ed1-x52c.google.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: No matching host in p0f cache. That's all we know. X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_bar: / X-Spam_report: (0.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:253132 Archived-At: On 21.07.2020 11:57, tomas@tuxteam.de wrote: > I don't think it's intentional, but please reconsider this: Reconsider the phrasing? >> [...] The core of the dispute is whether >> project-current's docstring should document the return value in >> detail (giving an example of built-in project instances's >> structure). Eli is insisting on it because (AFAICT) that suits his >> thought process and he thinks that will help users/clients to make >> sense of how things work. > > in a few words: Eli's thought process vs... That's how I understand it. And there is nothing bad in documenting code along the lines of someone's thoughts. It's generally a good thing. But not when it defeats the purpose of how the code is written. >> I am adamantly against this because it's against the design (clients >> should program against the public interface, not against the >> implementation), and is likely to encourage incorrect programs. > > ... The Right Way To Do It (TM). > > It comes across as a little... biased. Which is understandable, > but not a good position when bargaining, nevertheless ;-) The whole situation is biased, in multiple respects.