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From: Rocky Bernstein <rocky@gnu.org>
To: Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: relative load-file
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:39:29 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <6cd6de210911130839q275b4788p73d0dc77271bfb34@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <jwvskciflrf.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org>

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Ok. Thanks yet again for the useful information. I imagine this is
documented elsewhere as well.

When given the choice of writing code that works when conventions are
followed and code that works independent of whether conventions are
followed, I'll choose the later, even though I myself will try to follow
convention. (Except of course, there is good reason not to).


On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Stefan Monnier
<monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>wrote:

> >> This example seems to fail the "those cases do show up" test. Not
> >> just because the requires/loads tend to occur early in an Elisp
> >> buffer, but also because a call to `find-file' (or set-buffer for
> >> that matter) at the top-level of an Elisp buffer is extremely rare
> >> and strongly discouraged by the convention that loading an Elisp file
> >> should not have any "visible effect" (this convention is
> >> useful/necessary to allow things like Customize to load files at
> >> will, e.g. just to get the needed info to build a customization
> >> buffer).
> > I see.  You seem to have strong and somewhat self-fulfilling views of
> what
> > programmers should do or not do in Emacs.
>
> It's not restrictions about what programmers should do in Emacs, it's
> restrictions about how to structure an Elisp package: the file itself
> should be "declarative", such that the `load' itself won't affect the
> behavior of Emacs.
>
> This is a convention that doesn't come from me, but has appeared over
> the years as being useful.  The example of `customize' is just one
> of them.  Another case where we load a file and don't expect it to
> change the behavior of the running Emacs session is when you
> byte-compile a file that requires `foo': the byte-compiler should be
> free to load `foo' without having to worry about it changing the
> background color of the running session.
>
> Note also that it's a convention that most packages have always followed
> without even thinking about it.  And the few packages that didn't follow
> it had no trouble adjusting.
>
>
>        Stefan
>

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  reply	other threads:[~2009-11-13 16:39 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 38+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-11-11 17:01 relative load-file Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-11 18:35 ` Tassilo Horn
2009-11-11 19:26   ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-11 19:54     ` Tassilo Horn
2009-11-11 20:17     ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-11 21:21       ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-11 23:06         ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-12  1:01           ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-12  1:20             ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-12  2:09               ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-12  4:22                 ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-12 13:01                   ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-12 13:52                     ` spedrosa
2009-11-12 14:11                       ` Andreas Schwab
2009-11-12 15:34                     ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-13  4:34                       ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-13 14:22                         ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-13 15:03                           ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-13 16:17                             ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-13 16:39                               ` Rocky Bernstein [this message]
2009-11-14 11:24 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-14 15:44   ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-15 21:59     ` M Jared Finder
2009-11-18  3:20       ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-15 22:38     ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-15 23:50       ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-18 12:10         ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-18 13:39           ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-21 22:52             ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-22  4:45               ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-23  2:29                 ` Richard Stallman
2009-11-23 15:04                   ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-24 14:11                     ` Richard Stallman
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2009-11-13  5:24 grischka
2009-11-13  5:59 ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-13 14:26   ` Stefan Monnier
2009-11-13 15:06     ` Rocky Bernstein
2009-11-09 14:54 rocky

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