From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: TRS-80 Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Relevance search in Emacs Date: Sat, 05 Dec 2020 17:22:56 -0500 Message-ID: <6c90a70c6073bf3de6923168b0c277da@isnotmyreal.name> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="6977"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.15 To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 05 23:24:04 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1klfyG-0001iG-5O for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 05 Dec 2020 23:24:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47682 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1klfyF-0002aZ-7J for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sat, 05 Dec 2020 17:24:03 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55334) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1klfxK-0002LL-Bw for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Dec 2020 17:23:07 -0500 Original-Received: from server173-4.web-hosting.com ([68.65.122.210]:40123) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1klfxH-00068K-9A for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Dec 2020 17:23:05 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=isnotmyreal.name; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type: Message-ID:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To:From:Date:MIME-Version:Sender: Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From: Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help: List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=L8ptaVVAoIBvel4GVOn5fLRngfKCM9lwxeEPj/Ez2q4=; b=lzI+rWgXv4bWdtg270atFbMxfk vfcNqLk0mGyMnePXdcKHdkv7oI/ynkmvkp21pF+GY41Y+CNxN2NZjt9w/wl29Wy4kgXBFChVPYU8V vtyyZWedty8fgpgocVYUBYRuPJXT7fuJPiSeR1F4TQPdB5VuDpsUJ6K/gr2BuPaosXFeqWcr9Qs3w 27XEYnCkT1KoSMW/7vwnrMcdNW7IR0XdyleRJVSXoHF5MyOBuhlUGe0xagFFAnhIBP6ioVws7dbdA LV23YFfV9hS3WGp3W9enRARTSNtic/PJv7eJV27DFyc2sinlON4rvIxMtL2sPkKFXOEoY8AV8sWQv CEXJ3TSQ==; Original-Received: from [::1] (port=39326 helo=server173.web-hosting.com) by server173.web-hosting.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1klfxA-000o05-Rd for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sat, 05 Dec 2020 17:23:01 -0500 In-Reply-To: X-Sender: lists.trs-80@isnotmyreal.name X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.2 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server173.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - isnotmyreal.name X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server173.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: lists.trs-80@isnotmyreal.name X-Authenticated-Sender: server173.web-hosting.com: lists.trs-80@isnotmyreal.name X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Received-SPF: pass client-ip=68.65.122.210; envelope-from=lists.trs-80@isnotmyreal.name; helo=server173-4.web-hosting.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:126054 Archived-At: > On 2020-12-05 13:18, Jean Louis wrote: > Before weeks I was discussing and trying to find something that could > replace the `helm' in Emacs, so that I spare using external > libraries. Then discussion with Drew clarified that what I am looking > is rather type of a filter. But I would like to filter by > relevance. Some packages like `ivy' and `helm' do offer relevance > searches. Yet I wish to spare the basic package from using external > functions. This way me or other users can use any completion or Emacs > built-in completion function which is generally more user friendly in > my opinion. In fairness I never actually used Helm, because in my initial research it looked to me to be much more obtrusuive and less in line with established Emacs conventions. I chose to go with Ivy at that time and never looked back. Apologies to anyone who prefer Helm, I am not trying to start some flame war. :) Strictly speaking, you are correct, as under the hood my understanding is that Ivy and Helm both implement a lot of their own things "on top of" or "in place of" the "built-in" options. However this is not something I have ever really noticed in terms of being any sort of "real" problem for me in the several years I have now been using Ivy. But rather something I only even became aware of more recently as a theoretical / structural criticism of Ivy/Helm coming from certain circles[0] who instead seem to prefer to implement something... I dunno, more "minimal" or...? If I'm being honest those criticisms struck me as a bit self-serving, especially coming from such a relative newcomer to the field. Also, I seem to recall hearing that there was some discussion about moving some part (or all?) of Ivy directly into Emacs itself? I do know that Ivy for a long time now have been assigning their copyrights to GNU, they are very upfront about this to contributors at their GitHub in fact. Even those who would criticise Ivy/Helm[0] admit that there is a lot more functionality that they offer than the "built-in" solutions. I realized this in developing some of my own (as yet unreleased) packages where I depend on some of that functionality, and thus, in fact require Ivy as a dependency. If this was more about search itself than choice of completion framework, I guess I totally missed the point, or maybe that's another discussion to have. Anyway, maybe give Ivy a try instead of Helm. Or if you are swayed by arguments at my footnote link, one of those other "minimal" completion frameworks. Cheers, TRS-80 [0] https://github.com/raxod502/selectrum#why-use-selectrum