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* Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)
@ 2021-09-28  0:38 Phil Sainty
  2021-09-28  5:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
                   ` (2 more replies)
  0 siblings, 3 replies; 371+ messages in thread
From: Phil Sainty @ 2021-09-28  0:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: João Távora; +Cc: emacs-devel

This has probably been covered in earlier discussions (apologies for
not being across those), but...

Won't this break a ton of basic tooling for locating things, if the
symbol in the file is not the actual symbol?

Simplicity can be a *very* good thing, and knowing that what you see
is in fact what you get is a benefit which shouldn't be undervalued,
IMO.

Name-spaces in other languages I've seen seem to come at a very
significant cost, complicating the tooling and forcing a lot of
things which could previously be take for granted to need changing
(if even possible) so that they are reliant on new features which
"understand" what's going on behind the scenes.

Is whatever we're gaining actually worth the resulting obfuscation?

Long names being "tedious" (quoting the new info manual) to read
and write seems like an insufficient reason, IMHO.


-Phil (who is no doubt WAY too late to the party)




^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 371+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2021-11-05  9:56 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 371+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2021-09-28  0:38 Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Phil Sainty
2021-09-28  5:43 ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-09-28  7:26   ` João Távora
2021-09-30  6:03   ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-30  8:20     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 10:31       ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 10:54         ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-30 11:18           ` João Távora
2021-09-30 11:40             ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 16:58             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-30 20:25               ` João Távora
2021-10-01  3:01                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-30 11:30           ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 17:37             ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-30 11:46         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 12:41           ` João Távora
2021-09-30 13:00             ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 13:26               ` João Távora
2021-09-30 14:26                 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 14:57                   ` João Távora
2021-09-30 15:50                     ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 16:02                       ` João Távora
2021-09-30 17:58                         ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 23:30                           ` João Távora
2021-10-04 15:29                   ` André A. Gomes
2021-09-30 13:18             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 13:31               ` João Távora
2021-09-30 13:41                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 16:23             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-09-30 17:19               ` João Távora
2021-10-01  1:20                 ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 22:10               ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 22:22                 ` A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)) João Távora
2021-09-30 23:23                   ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 23:38                     ` João Távora
2021-10-01  1:17                       ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-10-01  7:02                       ` tomas
2021-10-01 13:15                         ` João Távora
2021-10-01 13:53                           ` tomas
2021-10-01 14:30                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-01 14:40                             ` João Távora
2021-10-01 15:48                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-01 16:05                                 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 16:11                                   ` João Távora
2021-10-01 16:41                                     ` João Távora
2021-10-01 23:17                                       ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-10-02  1:14                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02  1:46                                         ` João Távora
2021-10-02  2:13                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-04 15:57                                           ` André A. Gomes
2021-10-02  1:05                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02  1:30                                     ` João Távora
2021-10-02  1:43                                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02  2:05                                         ` João Távora
2021-10-02  2:24                                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02  8:39                                           ` Adam Porter
2021-10-02  8:36                                 ` Adam Porter
2021-10-02 12:16                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-02 23:18                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-03 21:17                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-07 22:21                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-18 21:13                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-18 21:22                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-20  6:45                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-20  8:00                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-23 23:26                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-01 22:58                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-01 23:03                                 ` João Távora
2021-10-02  8:50                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 10:29                                     ` João Távora
2021-10-02 11:57                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 12:44                                         ` João Távora
2021-10-02 14:50                                           ` João Távora
2021-10-02 15:01                                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 15:22                                             ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-02 15:33                                               ` But then what are namespaces ? (was: A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master))) João Távora
2021-10-02 19:42                                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 19:59                                                   ` But then what are namespaces ? Stefan Monnier
2021-10-02 20:41                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 21:05                                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-02 21:09                                                         ` João Távora
2021-10-02 21:14                                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-02 22:41                                                             ` João Távora
2021-10-02 22:49                                                               ` João Távora
2021-10-02 23:31                                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-03 21:47                                                         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 20:00                                                   ` But then what are namespaces ? (was: A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master))) João Távora
2021-10-02 20:41                                                     ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 20:46                                                       ` João Távora
2021-10-03  1:15                                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-10-02 15:25                                             ` A read-based grep-like for symbols (el-search?) (was Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master)) João Távora
2021-10-02 16:08                                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-01 22:58                           ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-01 23:10                             ` João Távora
2021-10-02  9:03                               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-02 10:25                                 ` João Távora
2021-10-01 23:04                         ` Michael Heerdegen
2021-09-30 12:34         ` Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-28  6:25 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28  7:41   ` João Távora
2021-09-28  8:04     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28  8:07     ` Helmut Eller
2021-10-02  1:06       ` João Távora
2021-09-28 12:40   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-28 15:28     ` João Távora
2021-09-28 19:21       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-28 17:25   ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 18:25     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 19:05       ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 19:29         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-30 12:23           ` Phil Sainty
2021-09-30 12:28             ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 12:29               ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-30 12:44             ` Joost Kremers
2021-09-30 13:18               ` Adam Porter
2021-10-01  0:11                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-09-30 12:52             ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 12:55               ` João Távora
2021-09-30 13:49                 ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-30 13:17             ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-01  0:21               ` João Távora
2021-09-30 14:12             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-30 14:27               ` João Távora
2021-09-30 22:50               ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-01  0:44                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-01  7:06                   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-10-01  7:24                     ` João Távora
2021-10-01 10:10                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-01  6:09                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-01 12:24                   ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-01 13:00                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02  0:28                       ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02  6:45                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02  7:44                           ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02  8:53                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02  9:20                               ` bug#50959: 28.0.50; Shorthand symbols are unknown to Emacs Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 10:15                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 11:02                                   ` João Távora
2021-10-02 11:09                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 11:14                                       ` João Távora
2021-10-02 11:54                                         ` João Távora
2021-10-02 12:29                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 14:02                                             ` João Távora
2021-10-02 14:20                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 14:43                                                 ` João Távora
2021-10-02 14:56                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 15:22                                                     ` João Távora
2021-10-02 15:53                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 17:46                                                         ` João Távora
2021-10-02 17:58                                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 18:03                                                             ` João Távora
2021-10-02 18:28                                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-04  0:14                                                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04  0:14                                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04  0:14                                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04 11:55                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-06 10:45                                               ` bug#50959: [PATCH] " João Távora
2021-10-06 12:19                                                 ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2021-10-06 12:34                                                   ` João Távora
2021-10-06 12:50                                                     ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2021-10-06 12:53                                                       ` João Távora
2021-10-06 19:59                                                         ` Stefan Monnier via Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors
2021-10-06 20:19                                                           ` João Távora
2021-10-10 10:46                                                 ` João Távora
2021-10-10 11:08                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-10 13:39                                                     ` João Távora
2021-10-10 14:23                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-04  0:14                                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-02 11:53                                     ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 12:10                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-02 12:37                                         ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02 14:17                                           ` João Távora
2021-10-02 10:52                             ` Do shorthands break basic tooling (tags, grep, etc)? (was Re: Shorthands have landed on master) João Távora
2021-10-04  0:12                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04  0:16                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-04 13:09                                 ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-04 15:44                                 ` João Távora
2021-10-04 16:51                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-04 17:43                                     ` João Távora
2021-10-04 17:51                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-04 18:34                                   ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-04 19:15                                     ` João Távora
2021-10-04 19:30                                       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-10-05 21:20                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-06 13:12                                         ` João Távora
2021-10-05 21:20                                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-05 21:20                                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-05 22:07                                     ` João Távora
2021-10-05 22:15                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 11:28                                         ` João Távora
2021-10-06 12:21                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 12:30                                             ` João Távora
2021-10-06 12:46                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 13:16                                                 ` João Távora
2021-10-06 16:23                                                   ` João Távora
2021-10-06 20:00                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-06 21:10                                                       ` João Távora
2021-10-06 21:39                                                         ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-10 21:09                                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-07 22:21                                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-07 22:24                                         ` João Távora
2021-10-08  6:08                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-08 12:58                                             ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-08 13:22                                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-10 21:06                                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-10 21:18                                                   ` João Távora
2021-10-08 14:16                                               ` João Távora
2021-10-08 15:55                                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-08 17:34                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-08 18:16                                                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-08 18:51                                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-08 23:43                                                   ` João Távora
2021-10-01 22:38             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-01 22:41               ` João Távora
2021-10-01 22:52               ` João Távora
2021-10-01 23:52               ` Phil Sainty
2021-10-02  1:38               ` T.V Raman
2021-09-28 19:30         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-28 18:38     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-09-28 19:14       ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 19:22         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-28 19:31           ` Alan Mackenzie
2021-09-28 19:41             ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-09-30 22:10         ` Richard Stallman
2021-09-30 23:59           ` Tomas Hlavaty
2021-09-28  7:21 ` João Távora
2021-09-28 12:49   ` Phil Sainty
2021-09-28 13:08     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-09-28 14:04       ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-28 15:01         ` Adam Porter
2021-09-28 15:20       ` João Távora
2021-09-28 19:23         ` Gregory Heytings
2021-09-28 15:15     ` João Távora
2021-09-30  6:06     ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-05  5:57       ` Elisp LSP Server Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-05  6:38         ` Po Lu
2021-10-05  9:50           ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-05 11:27             ` Po Lu
2021-10-05 11:46               ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-06 20:57                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-06 21:22                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-06 21:44                     ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-07 22:27                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-07  0:49                   ` Po Lu
2021-10-10 12:48                     ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-10 14:19                       ` Daniel Martín
2021-10-10 16:49                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-10 19:25                           ` Daniel Martín
2021-10-11  7:44                         ` Po Lu
2021-10-11 21:15                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12  5:29                           ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12  5:48                             ` Po Lu
2021-10-12 17:14                               ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 17:46                                 ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 20:53                                   ` dick
2021-10-13  2:29                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 11:56                                       ` dick
2021-10-13 13:19                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13  4:47                                   ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-13  0:02                                 ` Po Lu
2021-10-27 14:36                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-27 18:04                                   ` dick
2021-10-27 18:27                                     ` tomas
2021-10-27 18:33                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-27 18:55                                     ` Karl Fogel
2021-10-27 19:15                                       ` dick
2021-10-12  7:14                             ` tomas
2021-10-12  8:04                               ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 22:43                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13  5:36                               ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-13 22:40                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12 22:43                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13  3:42                               ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-13  5:20                                 ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 12:39                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 12:49                                     ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 13:25                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 13:37                                         ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 13:53                                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-13 23:42                                             ` Po Lu
2021-10-13 13:38                                         ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-14 22:22                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-14 22:26                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-15  6:35                                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-15  9:54                                         ` Tim Cross
2021-10-10 23:45                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-11  7:34                       ` Po Lu
2021-10-11  9:10                         ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-11 10:46                           ` Po Lu
2021-10-11 10:48                             ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-11 21:16                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12  7:17                               ` tomas
2021-10-14 12:48                               ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-15 22:47                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-11 21:10                       ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-22 16:23                       ` Mathias Dahl
2021-10-22 16:40                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-22 16:45                           ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-22 19:59                             ` Tim Cross
2021-10-22 21:09                               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-22 21:58                                 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-22 22:27                               ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-22 22:48                                 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-22 23:11                                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-23 23:27                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-25  7:47                               ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-23  2:00                             ` Po Lu
2021-10-25  2:17                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-25  7:00                               ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-22 16:55                           ` Mathias Dahl
2021-10-22 20:55                             ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-25  2:17                             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-25  7:22                               ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-25  7:45                                 ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-10-25  7:51                                   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-25  8:23                                     ` Theodor Thornhill
2021-10-30  6:51                                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-01 11:48                                   ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-11-01 17:47                                     ` Tim Cross
2021-11-03  3:18                                     ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-03 20:06                                       ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2021-11-05  3:53                                         ` Richard Stallman
2021-11-05  5:55                                           ` Daniel Brooks
2021-11-05  6:25                                             ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2021-11-05  9:56                                       ` Alexandre Garreau
2021-10-25  5:46               ` Jostein Kjønigsen
2021-10-06 20:57             ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-06 21:35               ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-05 10:15         ` Joost Kremers
2021-10-06 20:57           ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12  2:52             ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12  3:37               ` dick
2021-10-12  3:43               ` Stefan Kangas
2021-10-12 22:41                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-12  4:08               ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-12  5:55               ` Po Lu
2021-10-12  7:22                 ` Ag Ibragimov
2021-10-12 10:21                   ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-12 12:14                     ` tomas
2021-10-12 12:51                       ` Philip Kaludercic
2021-10-12 13:08                         ` tomas
2021-10-12 12:22                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-12 22:41                 ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-13  0:00                   ` Po Lu
2021-10-13  0:22                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-13  0:31                   ` Tim Cross
2021-10-13 17:15                     ` Joost Kremers
2021-10-13 17:34                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-13 20:00                         ` Tim Cross
2021-10-13 21:47                           ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-13 23:14                           ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-14  6:39                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14  6:58                             ` Po Lu
2021-10-14  6:52                           ` Po Lu
2021-10-14 11:08                             ` dick
2021-10-14 13:34                           ` Augusto Stoffel
2021-10-14  8:20                         ` João Távora
2021-10-15 22:51                           ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-16 19:02                             ` João Távora
2021-10-17 23:49                               ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-17 23:58                                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2021-10-20 22:33                                   ` Richard Stallman
2021-10-18  0:32                                 ` Tim Cross
2021-10-18  1:18                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18  2:23                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-18 12:43                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2021-10-18 13:13                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-10-14  7:01                       ` Po Lu
2021-10-14  8:43                         ` [OT] Elisp as a general purpose programming language (was: Elisp LSP Server) Joost Kremers
2021-10-14 10:37                           ` Jean-Christophe Helary
2021-10-14  7:03                     ` Elisp LSP Server Po Lu

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