From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#20924: 25.0.50; (elisp) `Sticky Properties` Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 07:51:17 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <6ae86cab-a610-42cd-a05d-6d209b40721c@default> References: <<614981ac-642e-448d-9f3c-4c8efabb1f1f@default>> <<83d20e612j.fsf@gnu.org>> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1435589574 27052 80.91.229.3 (29 Jun 2015 14:52:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:52:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 20924@debbugs.gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jun 29 16:52:41 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9aQJ-0006XQ-VV for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 16:52:40 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42590 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9aQJ-0002Bx-Gm for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:52:39 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:42147) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9aPo-0001SC-B9 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:52:12 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9aPk-0007UR-2T for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:52:08 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:59855) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9aPj-0007UG-V7 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:52:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9aPj-0007V9-HZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:52:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:52:03 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 20924 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 20924-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B20924.143558948728767 (code B ref 20924); Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:52:03 +0000 Original-Received: (at 20924) by debbugs.gnu.org; 29 Jun 2015 14:51:27 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:33064 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9aP8-0007Tu-Gi for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:51:27 -0400 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:26246) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Z9aP6-0007Ti-9V for 20924@debbugs.gnu.org; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 10:51:25 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0021.oracle.com (userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id t5TEpHIx026408 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:51:18 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userv0021.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t5TEpHZL017670 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:51:17 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0004.oracle.com (abhmp0004.oracle.com [141.146.116.10]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t5TEpH9B027344; Mon, 29 Jun 2015 14:51:17 GMT In-Reply-To: <<83d20e612j.fsf@gnu.org>> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0021.oracle.com [156.151.31.71] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:104485 Archived-At: > > The first sentence is misleading: > > > > Self-inserting characters normally take on the same properties > > as the preceding character. > > > > Is it about the characters themselves or about self-insertion of > > those characters? >=20 > The latter, because of the plural tense. "Self-inserting > characters" is a shorthand for "characters bound to a command > that just inserts the character which invoked it". >=20 > > The rest of the node says, for example, that `insert' inserts > > without inheritance. Doesn't that mean that if you pass a string of > > self-inserting chars to `insert' then they will not inherit from > > the char before the insertion? >=20 > No. According to my clarification above, there's no such thing as > "a string of self-inserting characters", only "a string of characters". > Any character can be inserted by an explicit call to 'insert'. >=20 > I guess the confusion here is between 'insert' the name of a > primitive and "insert" as part of "self-inserting", where "insert" > is used in its everyday meaning. I see no other unclear issues here. >=20 > > It would be clearer to just say that: they inherit when they are > > self-inserted. >=20 > We cannot "self-insert" a character, so saying that would be a > mistake. Isn't that the distinction you are trying to make? When a char is inserted by way of being "bound to a command that just inserts the character which invoked it", then it "normally take[s] on the same properties as the preceding character"? Anyway, I submit that the text is unclear. The specific behavior (e.g., what function `insert' does) described in the rest of the node is clear. The first paragraph is not clear. Please try to find some other way to say what you think the message of the first paragraph is. Under what conditions does a character "normally take on the same properties as the preceding character"? Thx.