From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Dmitry Gutov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Choice of bug tracker Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2023 23:29:11 +0300 Message-ID: <6ae0b4b0-b2ef-d8de-caed-d647979c2f37@gutov.dev> References: <87il9kksqz.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmy080kn.fsf@posteo.net> <83v8djcydl.fsf@gnu.org> <87350ndquw.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83350ncbns.fsf@gnu.org> <87cyzrjbd8.fsf@dfreeman.email> <83zg2vav46.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7j99304.fsf@dfreeman.email> <87wmxj27fn.fsf@dfreeman.email> <831qfrptiq.fsf@gnu.org> <57429221-d9be-5791-e975-b3539905e2f6@gutov.dev> <83a5udlj47.fsf@gnu.org> <87a5udk1co.fsf@posteo.net> <835y51kslv.fsf@gnu.org> <7a82c524-1aa1-e755-e377-673ebb107a44@gutov.dev> <83r0nok8s4.fsf@gnu.org> <83ledwk4xi.fsf@gnu.org> <76ecf629-a41a-f6e4-f661-2ef926326d6c@gutov.dev> <83zg2cias7.fsf@gnu.org> <83pm37ie54.fsf@gnu.org> <831qfmhyx3.fsf@gnu.org> <245de638-e6b2-dd8e-ee61-695c4c3da0c7@gutov.dev> <83h6oghixu.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Wed, 30 Aug 2023 16:29:13 -0400 (EDT) Content-Language: en-US In-Reply-To: <83h6oghixu.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.21; envelope-from=dmitry@gutov.dev; helo=wout5-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -39 X-Spam_score: -4.0 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.0 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, NICE_REPLY_A=-1.242, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:309556 Archived-At: On 30/08/2023 14:24, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2023 03:11:21 +0300 >> Cc: philipk@posteo.net, danny@dfreeman.email, stefankangas@gmail.com, >> emacs-devel@gnu.org, manuel.uberti@inventati.org >> From: Dmitry Gutov >> >>> . we must have support for features we have now on debbugs >> >> As a very reluctant user of Debbugs, I have say this is not a clear >> description for me. But as mentioned previously, the main features like >> modifying bug reports from email should either work, or are possible to >> implement/fix in a reasonable time frame. > > We could produce a detailed list of capabilities that must not regress > wrt debbugs, if that would be useful. The number of those > capabilities is small. That can help. >> The main thing I'm not sure about are bug reports from users without >> accounts, without requiring them to make accounts before making a bug >> report. We could even create an email address with an account which >> would create reports under its name, but forwarding subsequent >> correspondence on those issues back and forth seems more difficult. It's >> like we'd have to reimplement a mailing list, basically, but not a >> public one. > > I think it would be unfortunate to ask users to create an account just > to report a bug and ask questions about it. At least the email > gateway should be free of this complication (for casual submitters, > not for the developers and maintainers whom we could ask to register). Like I said, it's feasible to set up an email gateway that is one-way. But juggling responses back to unregistered users and forwarding their emails again seems (for those discussions to be continued) like a full-blown mailing list software. Maybe something like that already exists or could be written without too many complications. I cannot guarantee that in advance, however. From what I see, none of the "big and popular" solutions have that kind of feature, even Bugzilla's "Inbound email gateway". Though at their scale it's likely to result in too much spam anyway. >>> . we should decide which additional features are the absolute >>> minimum to justify the switch (those which will attract >>> contributors, make feedback easier, and help people who are more >>> used to PR-type workflow) >> >> FWIW, PRs/MRs can be initially disabled, if most of the heavy >> contributors prefer to stay on the email-driven workflow. > > I thought that was the single most important deficiency of debbugs? It's a feature that could make it more pleasant/familiar for certain developers to contribute code, and lead the discussions around such new code (aka code review). But I wouldn't blame a bug tracker for not being a code review tool. Bugzilla isn't one either: it seems that projects using it used something like Gerrit for code review in the past (I have no experience with it). > If they aren't, then which capabilities _are_ important to have that > we don't have on debbugs? Just the common bug tracker stuff, mostly related to Web UI (allowing one to easily read and join a discussion, subscribe to it, unsubscribe, syntax-highlighted code snippets, linking of issues between themselves, links between issues and commits, closing issues from commits, assigning issues to specific developers, ...). Also better working search and a very visible page "latest active issues/discussions". I expect a more "modern" bug tracker to result in higher volume of bug reports (good and bad ones, as discussed previously), reports from more different kinds of users, possibly resulting in faster bug reports too. This is just a hypothesis (that a younger user has lower patience on average), but it seems logical to me.