From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Lee Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: What does 'run' do in cperl-mode? Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 08:02:09 -0700 (PDT) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <6a01ec87-795c-4306-a698-d6d6ba85afdd@n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com> References: <0ded5ecd-f5f6-4a8e-9d19-f61bf0401022@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com> <86hcad9ar4.fsf@lifelogs.com> <0bb45e96-f9f3-4451-a457-004bb5930c76@p10g2000prf.googlegroups.com> <86wsj66sby.fsf@lifelogs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217259910 5458 80.91.229.12 (28 Jul 2008 15:45:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:45:10 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Jul 28 17:45:58 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KNUv2-0003yo-1n for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 17:45:52 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:55731 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KNUu7-0005h6-8J for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:44:55 -0400 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 67 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.6.97.120 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1217257330 24719 127.0.0.1 (28 Jul 2008 15:02:10 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Jul 2008 15:02:10 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: n33g2000pri.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.6.97.120; posting-account=qPxGtQkAAADb6PWdLGiWVucht1ZDR6fn User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10_4_11; en) AppleWebKit/525.18 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.2 Safari/525.22, gzip(gfe), gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:160641 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:55989 Archived-At: On Jul 28, 6:39 am, Ted Zlatanov wrote: > Meta is not the name of the key, it's the modifier name in today's > Emacs. As i mentioned previously, Meta was the name of a key, of which emacs's term Meta came from. > As I said, the modifier can be bound to any key (sorry I didn't > state the terminology clearly originally). Many think this is a plus. It doesn't make sense to use a name that's obsolete. > I doubt your suggestion will find much support because it would break a > convention that goes back (AFAIK) far further than Windows or Linux. In technology, terminologies and meaning change rather fast. Some stays, some gone, not necessarily corresponding to better or worse with respect to the quality of terms. > You have to consider the *cost* of breaking something like the Meta > convention, not just the benefit. The cost of changing emacs's notation from =E2=80=9CM-=E2=80=B9key=E2=80=BA= =E2=80=9D to =E2=80=9CAlt+=E2=80=B9key=E2=80=BA=E2=80=9D in emacs's manual is about maybe 4 hour's work by a few interactive find- replace operations in emacs, helped with eye balling. There is basically no cost to users. Any new user will immediately understand =E2=80=9CAlt+=E2=80=B9key=E2=80=BA=E2=80=9D and perhaps feel thi= s is a great improvement. Old emacs users might get a mental shock for the first hour when their hear about this change in emacs 23's change log, that's about it. Same for =E2=80=9CC-=E2=80=9D vs =E2=80=9CCtrl+=E2=80=9D notation. > But feel free to suggest it through > the proper channels as others have mentioned. Thanks. If you find this point about notation in manual has some merit, please help me set records straight. You can mention it to your emacs buddies, or link to my article in your blog, etc. When this issue came up, a lot tech geekers will just think =E2=80=9COh i don't want emacs to become another Microsoft Word or be dumbed down=E2=80= =9D, which is not rational. ----------------------- PS I clarified and extended some points about the issue today, please see: =E2=80=9CEmacs's M-=E2=80=B9key=E2=80=BA Notation vs Alt+=E2=80=B9key=E2=80= =BA Notation=E2=80=9D http://xahlee.org/emacs/modernization_meta_key.html The essay's sub headings pretty much summarize it: =E2=80=A2 Universally understood =E2=80=A2 Notation Same as Key Label =E2=80=A2 Meta is Alt in practice =E2=80=A2 Keyboards don't have Meta key today =E2=80=A2 Misc Xah =E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/ =E2=98=84