From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Emacs Windows barebin distribution Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:22:01 -0800 Message-ID: <6FB41164B73A4DE480BD74B0601BA8FD@us.oracle.com> References: <4F8ADAFC.9030308@gmail.com> <831unp0xzq.fsf@gnu.org> <837gpj0vyo.fsf@gnu.org> <551F5F9812F347C08746E86B58C59129@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1353259353 1008 80.91.229.3 (18 Nov 2012 17:22:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:22:33 +0000 (UTC) Cc: cschol2112@googlemail.com, 'Eli Zaretskii' , emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Mathias Dahl' To: "'Juanma Barranquero'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Nov 18 18:22:41 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta8Zq-0007mL-Hl for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 18:22:38 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:46621 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta8Zg-0005YE-As for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:22:28 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:52064) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta8Zb-0005Xe-3i for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:22:26 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta8ZY-0008AS-1P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:22:23 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:17177) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Ta8ZU-00089Y-Cz; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:22:16 -0500 Original-Received: from ucsinet21.oracle.com (ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qAIHMDvP027651 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:22:14 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt357.oracle.com (acsmt357.oracle.com [141.146.40.157]) by ucsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qAIHMDBJ018042 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sun, 18 Nov 2012 17:22:13 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt102.oracle.com (abhmt102.oracle.com [141.146.116.54]) by acsmt357.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qAIHMCda014169; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 11:22:12 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sun, 18 Nov 2012 09:22:12 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: Ac3FqLSsaM1YbzsuR+mJ90A8r3wyvQABkBIQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Source-IP: ucsinet21.oracle.com [156.151.31.93] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:154916 Archived-At: > > Emacs is for its users, not for its developers. > > On one hand, stopping releasing the barebin distribution does not > really harm (most?) users; there's still the full distribution. > > On the other hand, it's not like removing the barebin target is hard > to revert, should the user's outcry suggest that it was indeed a bad > decision. My point was about attitude and argument. It was not about whether users would actually be harmed by ending barebin distribution or whether it would be difficult to undo any such harm. Clearly, if the download data is available and easy to analyze, that would pretty much answer the question of how much users really want/need this. So I supported Matthias's suggestion, if feasible. But whether they do or do not does not change the falseness and blindness of the rationale that just _because_ no users have chimed in on emacs-devel during the last 7 months the user community must not want/need this. Emacs-devel activity is not a very good measure of what users use/want/need. It is some measure, of course, but certainly not the best. And in this case a very good measure was proposed. And, unbelievably, it was summarily dismissed/countered in favor of reliance on the much poorer measure of emacs-devel activity. That is the argument and the attitude I spoke out against.