From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "grischka" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Scrollbar thumbs Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 06:37:42 +0100 Message-ID: <6FB20B525B45459297A5BB57A36F7A4E@editkapc> References: <16F8B7E14CB049B9A860B703B0776C3F@editkapc> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1257226718 12527 80.91.229.12 (3 Nov 2009 05:38:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2009 05:38:38 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "Stefan Monnier" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Nov 03 06:38:31 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1N5C66-0002uV-Pj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 06:38:27 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:36277 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N5C66-0006WE-8J for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:38:26 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N5C5z-0006W0-GE for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:38:19 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N5C5u-0006VQ-M6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:38:18 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=50140 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N5C5u-0006VN-Ht for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:38:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.gmx.net ([213.165.64.20]:46821) by monty-python.gnu.org with smtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1N5C5t-0002xY-T0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:38:14 -0500 Original-Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 03 Nov 2009 05:38:11 -0000 Original-Received: from p5B0C67A1.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO editkapc) [91.12.103.161] by mail.gmx.net (mp009) with SMTP; 03 Nov 2009 06:38:11 +0100 X-Authenticated: #18588216 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX18KnRhPvloK0fajKPvqU1Fgty+9K7S8yGJtaCxAzY 0m9tBZWhf5DrNI In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Mail 6.0.6000.16480 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.0.6000.16545 X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 X-FuHaFi: 0.72 X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:116594 Archived-At: >> I don't see any dogma beyond the dogma of consistent design which is not >> something a toolkit designer can be blamed for. > > It has nothing to do with consistent design. Surely it has. >> Also by saying "our problem" you already realized that is your problem and >> not theirs. In a free world, why should they cripple their code just to >> save you from having to find the right solution within your own >> program. That would be two times wrong. > > We're not talking about crippling anybody's code other than ours. > They specifically add code which has no effect for 99% of the clients > and which prevents Emacs from working correctly. Removing that code > wouldn't cripple anyone. Well, extra code that prevents clients from doing unwanted things exists all over the place in APIs and the point of such code is that it has no effect under normal usage. And the consistency aspect of "normal usage" being defined is simply that widgets are there to provide a consistent look & feel across applications. It seems inconsequent if on one hand you want to use a widget but on the other hand want to use it differently to 99% of the other clients. Then you'd better invent your own. --- grischka