Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Jean Louis]

Just as Vim users contribute to educational development in Uganda, Emacs users can contribute too. And we shall make larger project then Vim.

I am now traveling to Abim area in Uganda to speak with chairman about the project to open up secondary school. 

Thus I propose to make the sponsor page, see how Vim does it, similar page we need from Emacs:

https://www.vim.org/sponsor/

Majority funds would go to developers of Emacs. Small part only is needed for school and salary of teachers. They are paid about 100-200 bucks per month, school building is already there, I am going to re-purpose it to become school of GNU Emacs. We will see what chairmanb of the village will say tomorrow. People will need water source as well, I have already paid 1000 euro partially for a drilling rig in Europe. It needs more support.

We have to catch up with Vim humanitarian project and make even better development in Uganda sponsored by Emacs users.

Please join the action. Emacs shall be by all means better than Vim.


Jean

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Philip Kaludercic]

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Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

> We have to catch up with Vim humanitarian project and make even better
> development in Uganda sponsored by Emacs users.

<opinion>
While I will certainly not object helping children in need, framing this
as "we have to beat vim" seems wrong or immature.
</opinion>

-- 
	Philip K.

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Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Jean Louis wrote:

> Just as Vim users contribute to educational development in
> Uganda, Emacs users can contribute too. And we shall make
> larger project then Vim.
>
> I am now traveling to Abim area in Uganda to speak with
> chairman about the project to open up secondary school.
>
> Thus I propose to make the sponsor page, see how Vim does
> it, similar page we need from Emacs:
>
> https://www.vim.org/sponsor/
>
> Majority funds would go to developers of Emacs. Small part
> only is needed for school and salary of teachers. They are
> paid about 100-200 bucks per month, school building is
> already there, I am going to re-purpose it to become school
> of GNU Emacs. We will see what chairmanb of the village will
> say tomorrow. People will need water source as well, I have
> already paid 1000 euro partially for a drilling rig in
> Europe. It needs more support.
>
> We have to catch up with Vim humanitarian project and make
> even better development in Uganda sponsored by Emacs users.
>
> Please join the action. Emacs shall be by all means better
> than Vim.

...

What kind of drilling rig did you buy?

What's the name of the village?

-- 
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Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Jean Louis]

Name of village is Lobolwala, Southeastern from Abim town, after Morulem village, it is like end of civilization, just mountains are next.

I have to arrive yet today.

Drilling rig is for digging water sources, hand made from a fork parts, with pressure pump, and pipes for digging 60 meter down.

I report later, as there is no power in this area to easily charge devices.

Some people like me never grow up, that is why I do what I want in liberty.


Jean

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Jean Louis wrote:

> Name of village is Lobolwala, Southeastern from Abim town,
> after Morulem village, it is like end of civilization, just
> mountains are next.
>
> I have to arrive yet today.
>
> Drilling rig is for digging water sources, hand made from
> a fork parts, with pressure pump, and pipes for digging 60
> meter down.

OK, well, sounds great! Take a couple of photos if you can.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Pankaj Jangid]

Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:

> Just as Vim users contribute to educational development in Uganda,
> Emacs users can contribute too. And we shall make larger project then
> Vim.
>

Why only Uganda?

1. My opinion is that if one free software is already working to improve
   conditions in an area then a second project should pick another
   area. We are not competing. We must work in cohesion.

2. I think the goals of Vim and GNU projects are not the same. GNU
   manifesto is much broader, if we read word-by-word. FSF also needs
   funding to cover those targets.

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Jean Louis]

* Pankaj Jangid <pankaj@codeisgreat.org> [2021-02-17 08:13]:
> Jean Louis <bugs@gnu.support> writes:
> 
> > Just as Vim users contribute to educational development in Uganda,
> > Emacs users can contribute too. And we shall make larger project then
> > Vim.
> >
> 
> Why only Uganda?

Not that "only" was mentioned, it is just that Vim does it in Uganda
and I can do something in Uganda, but I can do equally well in Kenya
or Tanzania as there I go too, from time to time. Now I have resources
in Uganda, so I do it in Ugnada.

> 1. My opinion is that if one free software is already working to improve
>    conditions in an area then a second project should pick another
>    area. We are not competing. We must work in cohesion.

It really does not matter. I am unable to help in other country for
time being. I can now do something in Uganda. Picking another area is
not really comfortable or financially affordable option. Instead of
renovating the school building for little money I would then need to
pay that money for flights. Uganda is large country, people live in
poverty conditions, many children do not go to school. Helping with
education creates better conditions in future that also positively
impact other countries, as we are all connected by business.

Vim project helps in Uganda since longer time, Bram Moolenaar made
such wonderful social betterments.

See:

https://iccf.nl/
https://iccf.nl/kcc.html
https://iccf-holland.org/news.html

and finally Google Photos of Bram Moolenaar's contributions in Uganda:
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO7A4tWDjnDpZ8vZbsB5_No5j9A72PSWy_-p8np3bLKiq3Spq0WmrcQC64DZzb0Pg?key=N1VTekZYNjZENWtjMFVQcGVfWFQ3WDhqOXFNQldB

Bram Moolenaar and Vim users support those social betterment projects,
he receives donations, one part goes for those betterments.

That is really great as a side project of Vim text editor. Instead of
getting rich by selling editor, he makes generations of children come
out with better education.

Education in Uganda is not really free, maybe somewhere on
paper. Children 

> 2. I think the goals of Vim and GNU projects are not the same. GNU
>    manifesto is much broader, if we read word-by-word. FSF also needs
>    funding to cover those targets.

It really does not matter what are goals of Vim or GNU project as
helping in social betterment is a side project, something I do while I
do other activities, on the way, along the way. There is no need for
manifesto.

It would be nice if FSF could sponsor the education project I have
already prepared, we will see that, as I will send the proposal when
finished.

Jean

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Jean Louis wrote:

> It really does not matter what are goals of Vim or GNU
> project

The Emacs-Vim $EDITOR war... that was ages ago.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Jean Louis]

* Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> [2021-02-21 09:33]:
> Jean Louis wrote:
> 
> > It really does not matter what are goals of Vim or GNU
> > project
> 
> The Emacs-Vim $EDITOR war... that was ages ago.

I have no idea about the war, but where there are wars there are
veterans. They never forget. ;-)

For me it does not matter, I use sometimes nvi as vi, and Vim and Gvim
sometimes, e3em as Emacs emulation, zile, zile-on-guile, nano, but
mostly Emacs. I like Emacs in console as it is more consistent with
`mutt' email reader, and I use Emacs in console also on my mobile
devices. Today extensible editors like Vim and Emacs may emulate each
other. Differences are in speed and bloat.

viper-mode is interesting feature of Emacs but if I invoke M-x
viper-mode in GUI, then it does not reflect same in console, it is not
global mode how I see it. Sometimes "emacsclient -nw"
blocks.

I can use basic key bindings of vi editors in Emacs, and I think it is
equally well as Emacs key bindings.

Modal modes would allow much more key prefixes, that is also something
to think about.

Combination of key bindings also work well.

It is often pleasure to use vi key bindings in Emacs. I wonder why no
Spacemacs users are reporting to this mailing list.

No conflicts between editors on my side.

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Jean Louis wrote:

>> The Emacs-Vim $EDITOR war... that was ages ago
>
> I have no idea about the war, but where there are wars there
> are veterans

There are and let's pray it stays that way for many years
to come...

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

>>> The Emacs-Vim $EDITOR war... that was ages ago
>>
>> I have no idea about the war, but where there are wars
>> there are veterans
>
> There are and let's pray it stays that way for many years to
> come...

In the US armed forces it holds that

  [a] veteran is a former member of the Armed Forces ... who
  served on active duty and was discharged under conditions,
  which were other than dishonorable [1]

That means there are 20 year old US Air force veterans!

My own definition of being a veteran with respect to
technology is that you are a veteran after using it actively
for 10 years. "Actively" here means with an eye to the
technology itself, so technology for its own sake, in part.
E.g. just browsing the web and watching Star Trek with mpv's
default settings on Ubuntu, that doesn't make you anything,
well a Trekker/Trekkie perhaps, but not a Linux veteran with
respect to the technology no matter how long you do it.

This definition IMO holds for a lot of things. Doing
martial arts from age 20 to 30 most definitely makes you
a veteran, repairing bikes for a decade and you are a pro
(often you are as good or better than the actuals
professionals by then) ... and after 10 years, you should even
understand your own wife pretty well, ey?

So yes, a lot of people are Unix and Emacs veterans by now!
Does that feel good? I don't know actually... well, yes!
why not? :)

[1] http://equity.psu.edu/veterans/criteria

-- 
underground experts united
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https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

> In the US armed forces it holds that
>
>   [a] veteran is a former member of the Armed Forces ... who
>   served on active duty and was discharged under conditions,
>   which were other than dishonorable
>
> That means there are 20 year old US Air force veterans!

Hm... is that ambiguous? Doesn't sound idiomatic anyway.
It should convey: people at age 20.

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Jean Louis]

* Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor <help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org> [2021-02-21 11:56]:
> >>> The Emacs-Vim $EDITOR war... that was ages ago
> >>
> >> I have no idea about the war, but where there are wars
> >> there are veterans
> >
> > There are and let's pray it stays that way for many years to
> > come...
> 
> In the US armed forces it holds that
> 
>   [a] veteran is a former member of the Armed Forces ... who
>   served on active duty and was discharged under conditions,
>   which were other than dishonorable [1]
> 
> That means there are 20 year old US Air force veterans!
> 
> My own definition of being a veteran with respect to
> technology is that you are a veteran after using it actively
> for 10 years.

Only if editor wars are involved. Or OS wars or similar.

> This definition IMO holds for a lot of things. Doing
> martial arts from age 20 to 30 most definitely makes you
> a veteran, repairing bikes for a decade and you are a pro
> (often you are as good or better than the actuals
> professionals by then) ... and after 10 years, you should even
> understand your own wife pretty well, ey?

Buhahhaa. Is better making research and understanding many different
people, not focusing on one only. It is illusion of social statuses.

We have virtual social statuses, and real social statuses. Both are
illusions, often deceptions, and often frauds.

> So yes, a lot of people are Unix and Emacs veterans by now!
> Does that feel good? I don't know actually... well, yes!
> why not? :)

veteran from Wordnet:

* Overview of noun veteran

The noun veteran has 3 senses (first 3 from tagged texts)
1. (7) veteran, veteran soldier -- (a serviceman who has seen considerable active service; "the veterans laughed at the new recruits")
2. (5) veteran, vet, ex-serviceman -- (a person who has served in the armed forces)
3. (5) veteran, old-timer, oldtimer, old hand, warhorse, old stager, stager -- (an experienced person who has been through many battles; someone who has given long service)

So when I say "veteran" I refer to definition (3) above, one that has
been in battles, not just serving without battles.

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next
Jean Louis wrote:

>> My own definition of being a veteran with respect to
>> technology is that you are a veteran after using it
>> actively for 10 years.
>
> Only if editor wars are involved. Or OS wars or similar.

There were also Lisp wars (SBCL and all, right?), in the past.
With Lisp papers appearing at universities all the time and
all. Long before my time but I read about it, sounds like fun.
Lisp is so easy to - hm, not port - reimplement. Unix wars are
loong in the past as well. Except for OpenBSD vs the World,
maybe... ;)

>> This definition IMO holds for a lot of things.
>> Doing martial arts from age 20 to 30 most definitely makes
>> you a veteran, repairing bikes for a decade and you are
>> a pro (often you are as good or better than the actuals
>> professionals by then) ... and after 10 years, you should
>> even understand your own wife pretty well, ey?
>
> Buhahhaa. Is better making research and understanding many
> different people, not focusing on one only. It is illusion
> of social statuses.

Better to do research than do muay Thai, bikes, and your ...
uhm, wife?

Interesting. What kind of research would that be? Because to
me it sounds pretty broad actually, and not just the last
part hoho.

> We have virtual social statuses, and real social statuses.
> Both are illusions, often deceptions, and often frauds.

muay Thai ring = real hierarchy. Battlefield = real etc. (In
Berlin perhaps some of it was felt, when they heard the roar
from the Red Army? what do you think?) Bikes, in terms of
technology, real hierarchy, in terms of people, it is all bout
the money. But isn't that how today's hierarchy is defined
anyway, formally at least? In terms of coolness maybe
a custom, again, Berlin steel fixie beats a Taipei carbon road
bike, still...

> veteran from Wordnet:

Well, words. I'm talking about what defines formally a US Air
Force veteran, and offered my own definition of for example
a Linux veteran.

> So when I say "veteran" I refer to definition (3) above, one
> that has been in battles, not just serving without battles.

19 year old veterans ... battle or not, to me that's
a contradiction in terms. The word, I mean.

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underground experts united
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https://dataswamp.org/~incal

Re: Vim project helps in Uganda, Emacs shall be next

[Emanuel Berg via Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor]

Jean Louis wrote:

> Only if editor wars are involved. Or OS wars or similar.

Emacs IRC clients?

  https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2021-03/msg00009.html

BTW how's Emacs drilling in Uganda, compared to the Vim team?

Maybe we should instead focus on South Sudan, Kenya, Tanzania,
Rwanda, and the Democratic Republic of the Congo? That way,
we'd encircled Vim, I mean Uganda?

-- 
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
https://dataswamp.org/~incal