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From: "Przemysław Wojnowski" <esperanto@cumego.com>
To: Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2015 10:27:16 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <6909324d6de8929192a27fc0be8267d4@mail.iq.pl> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <83oag3oosv.fsf@gnu.org>

W dniu 2015-10-12 21:43, Eli Zaretskii napisał(a):
> I don't think this is possible.  Some slowdown will be inevitable.
IMHO the performance is overestimated.

Look at Java based IDEs - Idea, Eclipse, Netbeans, etc.
All of them have been written in _slow_ Java (at least according
to C standard) and run on _slow_ JVM. But all of them are able to
attract more users that Emacs, which has core in blazing fast C.

The truth is that nobody cares about performance as long as it is
_good enough_. Of course it is important, but, as many other
things, to some level, beyond which further progress in that
direction doesn't matter much and other features become important.
Moreover, the value of performance will change over time (probably
decrease) as can be seen through last decades, because computers
have more resources.

I started the topic with the keyword "maintainable", because IMHO
it's very important factor for long living and growing projects.
In such projects (proprietary and open source) people come and
go with the knowledge and skills they had. So, from project
existence standpoint, it's important to make it easy for the new
developers to acquire the knowledge from the code/docs/whatsleft.

Languages will come and go (sometimes stay longer, though), but
if the code is easy to reason about, test, modify, etc. then it
will be easier to move (maybe even translate) to another language,
find bugs, and find new people who will be able to work with it.

IMHO C lacks basic abstractions that reduce conceptual weight of
any subsystem/library/concept/etc. Interfaces and namespaces do.
Static typing would also help.



  reply	other threads:[~2015-10-13  8:27 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 250+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-10-11  8:11 Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-11  8:17 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-11 22:02   ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-11 22:14     ` John Wiegley
2015-10-11 22:37       ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 22:37       ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-11 22:49         ` John Wiegley
2015-10-11 22:51         ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 23:12         ` Drew Adams
2015-10-12  2:43     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 15:35       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 21:30         ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-12 20:01     ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-11  8:54 ` Alexis
2015-10-11 10:53   ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-11 11:23 ` Thomas Koch
2015-10-11 13:11   ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-11 13:36     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-11 13:39       ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-11 13:55         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-11 14:03           ` Dmitry Gutov
2015-10-11 12:52 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-11 12:59 ` Fabrice Popineau
2015-10-11 17:25 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-11 18:32   ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 19:14     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-11 19:43       ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-11 19:53         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-11 20:13           ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12  2:33             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12  3:59               ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-12  8:12                 ` Steinar Bang
2015-10-12  9:36                   ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-12 10:20                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 12:23               ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 16:08                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 20:00         ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-13  2:36           ` Rustom Mody
2015-10-12 10:56       ` Michael Heerdegen
2015-10-11 21:52     ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12  7:14       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 12:48     ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 13:22       ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 14:18         ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 15:04           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 18:24         ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 19:21           ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-12 19:39             ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 19:46               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 19:58                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 20:11                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 20:42                     ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-10-12 20:46                     ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-13 14:57                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 16:22                       ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 16:40                         ` Drew Adams
2015-10-13 16:49                           ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 20:40               ` Drew Adams
2015-10-13  4:18                 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13  6:00                   ` immerrr again
2015-10-13 14:59                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13  1:12               ` Óscar Fuentes
2015-10-13 10:01               ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:12                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 15:20                   ` David Kastrup
2015-10-14 15:04                     ` Chris Patti
2015-10-14 15:34                       ` Jay Belanger
2015-10-16 12:25                   ` Guile-Emacs Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 12:03                 ` Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 13:30                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 14:55                     ` Wolfgang Jenkner
2015-10-16 15:14                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 15:25                     ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 15:51                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 14:29                   ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 15:08                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 15:28                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 16:05                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 15:31                       ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-16 16:11                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 19:34                           ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-16 19:51                             ` David Kastrup
2015-10-16 19:52                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-16 20:51                           ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-17  5:27                             ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17  7:20                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17  9:44                               ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-17 10:24                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 10:22                                   ` Ludovic Courtès
2015-10-18 11:33                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 12:54                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 13:17                                         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 14:40                                           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 15:31                                             ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 16:19                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 16:37                                           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 16:44                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 17:06                                               ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 17:11                                                 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 17:36                                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 17:52                                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 18:23                                                     ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-18 18:35                                                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 18:53                                                         ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-18 19:03                                                           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 19:13                                                           ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-18 19:35                                                           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 19:49                                                             ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-19  7:59                                                               ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 10:50                                                                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19 10:59                                                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-19 11:31                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 12:04                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 11:24                                                                   ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20  4:18                                                                     ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-20  7:36                                                                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20 10:17                                                                         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19 12:26                                                                   ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-19 12:53                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19 17:43                                                                   ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-19 18:06                                                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-20  2:46                                                                       ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-19  8:46                                                               ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19  9:39                                                                 ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-19  5:33                                                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-26 11:01                                                             ` Alexis
2015-10-18 19:16                                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18 22:38                                                     ` Nicolas Petton
2015-10-20  7:34                                                       ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 16:40                                           ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 16:56                                             ` David Kastrup
2015-10-18 17:46                                               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-19  7:45                                             ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-10-17 15:38                                 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 16:25                                   ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 16:43                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 17:00                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 16:48                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 17:03                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 17:08                                         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 17:10                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 18:31                                           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-17 17:04                                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 17:32                                       ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 17:42                                         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-17 18:34                                           ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-17 19:15                                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 21:22                                               ` Taylan Ulrich Bayırlı/Kammer
2015-10-18  0:23                                                 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 15:53                           ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-18 16:58               ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-18 17:40                 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 19:40                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 20:47                     ` David Kastrup
2015-10-19  3:55                   ` Tom Tromey
2015-10-20  7:33                     ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 19:43             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13  8:27               ` Przemysław Wojnowski [this message]
2015-10-13  8:52                 ` Gian Uberto Lauri
2015-10-13 10:19                 ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-13 15:14                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 19:45                     ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-13 15:05                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 16:09                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 20:43                   ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-13 16:06                 ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 20:20                   ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-13 21:22                     ` emacs IDE features (was: Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language) Andrés Ramírez
2015-10-13 22:13                       ` emacs IDE features John Wiegley
2015-10-14 11:11                         ` Phillip Lord
2015-10-16 23:13                           ` John Wiegley
2015-10-17  7:40                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-17 23:51                               ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18  0:48                                 ` Sacha Chua
2015-10-18  2:34                                   ` Xue Fuqiao
2015-10-18 17:05                                     ` Sacha Chua
2015-10-18 17:31                                       ` John Wiegley
2015-10-18 16:21                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-19 16:37                                   ` Christopher Allan Webber
2015-10-18 16:47                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-18 17:30                                   ` John Wiegley
2015-10-19 10:30                             ` Phillip Lord
2015-10-20  6:56                               ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 22:10                     ` Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language John Wiegley
2015-10-12 23:00             ` Camm Maguire
2015-10-13  1:38               ` Alexis
2015-10-13  1:40                 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-13 23:34             ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-13 23:55               ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13  5:28           ` Ken Raeburn
2015-10-13  5:39             ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 10:13               ` David Kastrup
2015-10-14  1:43                 ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-13  6:49             ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-12 13:50       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 15:17         ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 15:35           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 16:29           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 22:39           ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-13 11:27             ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 11:46               ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-10-13 12:02                 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 12:21                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2015-10-13 12:22                   ` Mathieu Lirzin
2015-10-13 13:52                     ` John Yates
2015-10-13 14:30                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 16:26                         ` Andreas Schwab
2015-10-13 16:40                           ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 14:38                       ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 13:06                   ` Sergey Organov
2015-10-13 14:19                     ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-13 14:39                       ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:21                         ` Artur Malabarba
2015-10-13 15:53                           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 16:09                             ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 16:23                               ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 16:31                               ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 16:38                                 ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:21                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-13 15:42                   ` David Kastrup
2015-10-13 15:32               ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-13 16:13                 ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-13 21:02                   ` Andy Moreton
2015-10-14  8:15                     ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-14 13:28                       ` Andy Moreton
2015-10-14 16:18                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-14 10:22                     ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-14 10:56                       ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-14 11:14                         ` Przemysław Wojnowski
2015-10-14 11:33                         ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-14 12:12                           ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-14 11:46                         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-14 12:29                           ` Tassilo Horn
2015-10-14 11:21                     ` Mathieu Lirzin
2015-10-14 16:05                     ` John Wiegley
2015-10-13 16:13               ` John Wiegley
2015-10-12 15:09       ` Paul Eggert
2015-10-12 15:24         ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 15:24         ` Oleh Krehel
2015-10-12 16:31           ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 17:20         ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2015-10-13 12:02           ` Marcus Harnisch
2015-10-13 23:38             ` Richard Stallman
2015-10-14  1:46             ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-14 13:08               ` Marcus Harnisch
2015-10-12 16:18       ` Eli Zaretskii
2015-10-12 17:47         ` Steinar Bang
2015-10-12 17:59           ` David Kastrup
2015-10-12 21:28       ` Daniel Colascione
2015-10-11 18:36   ` Przemysław Wojnowski

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