From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#40671: [DOC] modify literal objects Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2020 10:18:33 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68ef2c1e-0b60-4a9d-b781-4dabf71a6e7f@default> References: <83tv1finob.fsf@gnu.org> <1E9E4C19-37C2-4E24-91B7-8101F9CFBF35@acm.org> <527dc4b5-3176-38b5-f2c1-1483ffc814a1@cs.ucla.edu> <87k12b6sv2.fsf@web.de> <2225099d-16e1-645d-0342-a054da53363f@cs.ucla.edu> <87a7376nv9.fsf@web.de> <99d7a8f9-7732-e1e3-414e-aabbea4433ac@cs.ucla.edu> <87o8rnasfk.fsf@web.de> <9e6c138d-cb9f-6075-34df-a8d1d931343b@cs.ucla.edu> <871rofxbz9.fsf@web.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="46627"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Michael Heerdegen , ke.vigouroux@laposte.net, eggert@cs.ucla.edu, 40671@debbugs.gnu.org To: Mattias =?UTF-8?Q?Engdeg=C3=A5rd?= , Richard Stallman Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Apr 24 19:21:16 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jS20n-000Bz5-VX for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:18:38 GMT Original-Received: from userv0122.oracle.com (userv0122.oracle.com [156.151.31.75]) by userp3020.oracle.com with ESMTP id 30k7qxh5ec-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:18:38 +0000 Original-Received: from abhmp0005.oracle.com (abhmp0005.oracle.com [141.146.116.11]) by userv0122.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 03OHIYgQ000950; Fri, 24 Apr 2020 17:18:34 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9.1 (1003210) [OL 16.0.4993.0 (x86)] X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9601 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxscore=0 spamscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 malwarescore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004240133 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=6000 definitions=9601 signatures=668686 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 lowpriorityscore=0 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 phishscore=0 impostorscore=0 clxscore=1015 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 priorityscore=1501 suspectscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2003020000 definitions=main-2004240133 X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-Received-From: 209.51.188.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "bug-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.bugs:178945 Archived-At: > > It seems strange to use the terms "constant" and "mutable" to > > describe whether modifying its contents is something you had > > better avoid. I think people will find that terminology > > confusing. Normally "mutable" means that you CAN change it, > > not that it is OK to change it. >=20 > What is the difference between CANNOT and > SHOULD NOT, operationally? To the user, nothing; there is no gain from > disobeying our advice. No. To the user: something. And the negative effects might not be immediately noticeable. If we say that you can't modify XYZ there's no need for you to pay attention, learn about the gotcha, and try to avoid modifying XYZ. The burden here is on the user (unfortunately). Emacs Lisp doesn't protect you from doing what you'd be told you "cannot" do. It's up to you to know when you might be stumbling onto this pitfall and avoid it. Telling users they _can't_ fall into this pit is like telling someone it's impossible for their car to go through a red light. Nope, they're the driver, and the message should be, "Don't drive through a red light."