From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#13949: 24.4.1; `fill-paragraph' should not always put the buffer as modified Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 11:07:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <68725c88-67d8-4e40-a8ca-6c9d5d420aad@default> References: <56F12360.5030301@ro.ru> <83y49a4hga.fsf@gnu.org> <56F1837D.4060300@ro.ru> <87egb2qtvz.fsf@web.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1458670107 31215 80.91.229.3 (22 Mar 2016 18:08:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:08:27 +0000 (UTC) Cc: 13949@debbugs.gnu.org To: Michael Heerdegen , Jaakov Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 22 19:08:14 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aiQj0-0005O8-3O for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 19:08:14 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38748 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aiQiz-00009N-8L for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:08:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:41213) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aiQit-00007T-Pk for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:08:08 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aiQio-00054G-16 for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:08:07 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.43]:34951) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aiQin-000548-TN for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:08:01 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aiQin-0004d6-Kd for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:08:01 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:08:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 13949 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: Original-Received: via spool by 13949-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B13949.145867004217750 (code B ref 13949); Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:08:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at 13949) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Mar 2016 18:07:22 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60311 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aiQiA-0004cE-Ls for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:07:22 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:48769) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1aiQi9-0004c1-Nr for 13949@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 14:07:22 -0400 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id u2MI7FLn005536 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:07:15 GMT Original-Received: from aserv0121.oracle.com (aserv0121.oracle.com [141.146.126.235]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.14.4/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2MI7EUl017769 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:07:14 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0011.oracle.com (abhmp0011.oracle.com [141.146.116.17]) by aserv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id u2MI7DHJ015875; Tue, 22 Mar 2016 18:07:13 GMT In-Reply-To: <87egb2qtvz.fsf@web.de> X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6744.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 208.118.235.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:115342 Archived-At: > > Objection for the following reason: > > - It's a human who types in and deletes a charter. > > - fill-paragraph is not a human, but a routine. >=20 > I agree. Executing one command that has the effect of (1) not changing > the buffer and (2) marking the buffer modified makes no sense to the > user. It makes sense from the viewpoint of the code, but not from the > viewpoint of the user interface. It is confusing to the user, that's > not good, so if we could change it, it would be progress, no matter how > this issue is classified in technical terms. Yes, _IF_ we can guarantee that there are no differences between the before and after states, that is, no differences that a user or Lisp program can discern. A related question is how to handle certain changes that a user might be able to detect but that s?he might not want to have associated with the notion of buffer modification - e.g., text-property changes. Currently, all buffer modifications are handled the same way in terms of reporting/testing whether modified.