From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Emacs learning curve Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:50:38 -0700 Message-ID: <675D80AD8CAA4D2ABF38193770343D9F@us.oracle.com> References: <4C3B6A8A.80105@gmx.de> <87wrt0e81n.fsf@telefonica.net> <62E9699C07054418AB66F9C5FCB54E5C@us.oracle.com> <87sk3oe3la.fsf@telefonica.net> <1154D96E7D2F401D849266F359E44BB9@us.oracle.com> <87ocecdzou.fsf@telefonica.net> <2256C17F740A425884AD551DE7758056@us.oracle.com> <87fwzodqqm.fsf@telefonica.net> <5138CDF30B2D4B778F948015614DA7BC@us.oracle.com> <87iq4ijtdy.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <270AD461F0F14E549F82D88785A23A0A@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1279911139 4215 80.91.229.12 (23 Jul 2010 18:52:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:52:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Juanma Barranquero'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 23 20:52:17 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcNLr-0002Pb-0c for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 20:52:17 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:51574 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OcNLo-0003v3-42 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:52:04 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=54503 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1OcNLh-0003u6-UY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:51:59 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcNLf-0001WC-Rm for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:51:57 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:55199) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1OcNLf-0001Vy-Kv for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 14:51:55 -0400 Original-Received: from rcsinet13.oracle.com (rcsinet13.oracle.com [148.87.113.125]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id o6NIpnEF004677 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:51:50 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by rcsinet13.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id o6NIplVH001384; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 18:51:47 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt020.oracle.com by acsmt355.oracle.com with ESMTP id 432009451279911039; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:50:39 -0700 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.216.179) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Fri, 23 Jul 2010 11:50:39 -0700 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: Thread-Index: AcsqlIetQN4vA+8sSeytJhRNBam2TwAAB8nQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5931 X-Source-IP: acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155] X-Auth-Type: Internal IP X-CT-RefId: str=0001.0A090208.4C49E4C4.0257:SCFMA4539814,ss=1,fgs=0 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:127720 Archived-At: > > It was pointed out that Emacs, like Spanish, has a reason > > to exist even if it is not the most widespread language > > Well, according to most sources Spanish is the second language > worldwide in number of native speakers (after mandarin). For "native" speakers, depending on what is meant by that, in one estimation (second link below) you are correct: Spanish is second. English is a close third. Mandarin is bigger than Spanish and English combined. In a different estimation (first link below), however, Hindi/Urdu is second in native speakers (Spanish 3rd, English 4th). English is #2 in total speakers (50% more than Spanish). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_number_of_native_speakers The first link also shows native speakers, and that estimation puts Hindi/Urdu ahead of Spanish. That underlines the fact that no one knows - these are only estimates. Interestingly (surprising to me, at least), there are more secondary speakers of French than of English (and Spanish is #5 in secondary speakers). > > and it uses vocabulary and pronunciation that > > foreigners (who are admittedly more numerous than Emacs > > speakers) can sometimes find disconcerting. > > Foreigners are disconcerted by the weirdest things... Spanish > pronunciation is simpler (far fewer phonemes) and much more regular > (systematic spelling) than English'. Almost anything is simpler and much more regular than English. Even Emacs. Korean has an incredibly sensible and accurate alphabet. Anyone can read Korean out loud after a few minutes studying the alphabet (but of course without necessarily having a clue what they are pronouncing). And that alphabet was designed once and for all back in the 1500s, if I'm not mistaken. A good example of the value of careful study and good design. BTW, I heard on the radio the other day that they ("They" (TM)) have logged the one-millionth word in English. It was "Web 2.0", IIRC. "Defriend" was also a recent one. By contrast, French was clocked at about 250,000 words. Like sluts everywhere, English is not picky about what it picks up. French is picky (or it would like to be). In English you can verb any noun. And the multitude of secondary English speakers represent a wealth of language invention. We say that English has "borrowed" here and there, but it's not really borrowing. ;-)