From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#7702: 24.0.50; doc of select-active-regions, cut/paste/kill/yank Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 20:02:28 -0800 Message-ID: <6728B5371A6446B9B4C1CEB95BFF7FF2@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1292991793 3041 80.91.229.12 (22 Dec 2010 04:23:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 04:23:13 +0000 (UTC) To: 7702@debbugs.gnu.org Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 22 05:23:09 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PVGEG-0002BA-Fa for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Wed, 22 Dec 2010 05:23:08 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42981 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PVGEF-0004xp-GP for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 23:23:07 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=34348 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PVGE8-0004wj-Fz for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 23:23:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PVGE7-0006Vo-FI for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 23:23:00 -0500 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:55862) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PVGE7-0006Vk-BK for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 23:22:59 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PVFpy-0004fU-6J; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 22:58:02 -0500 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: "Drew Adams" Original-Sender: debbugs-submit-bounces@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-To: owner@debbugs.gnu.org Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2010 03:58:01 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: report 7702 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: X-Debbugs-Original-To: Original-Received: via spool by submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B.129299025417901 (code B ref -1); Wed, 22 Dec 2010 03:58:01 +0000 Original-Received: (at submit) by debbugs.gnu.org; 22 Dec 2010 03:57:34 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PVFpU-0004eg-QB for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 22:57:33 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.92]) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1PVFpS-0004eU-6G for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 22:57:30 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PVFvm-0002p8-Sq for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 23:04:03 -0500 Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]:55977) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PVFvm-0002p4-QX for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 23:04:02 -0500 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=47508 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1PVFvm-0006P3-6x for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 23:04:02 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PVFvk-0002oo-LV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 23:04:01 -0500 Original-Received: from rcsinet10.oracle.com ([148.87.113.121]:29833) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1PVFvk-0002of-EV for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 23:04:00 -0500 Original-Received: from rcsinet15.oracle.com (rcsinet15.oracle.com [148.87.113.117]) by rcsinet10.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.2) with ESMTP id oBM43wZw008340 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 22 Dec 2010 04:03:59 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt355.oracle.com (acsmt355.oracle.com [141.146.40.155]) by rcsinet15.oracle.com (Switch-3.4.2/Switch-3.4.1) with ESMTP id oBM3v7cQ018001 for ; Wed, 22 Dec 2010 04:03:57 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt013.oracle.com by acsmt354.oracle.com with ESMTP id 873754121292990544; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 20:02:24 -0800 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/10.159.239.39) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Tue, 21 Dec 2010 20:02:24 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AcuhjQxz6cFKFu+OSXyTOgisCpOC5w== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.5994 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.11 Precedence: list Resent-Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2010 22:58:02 -0500 X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:42727 Archived-At: Doc string of `select-active-regions': "If non-nil, an active region automatically becomes the window selection." Nowhere in Emacs is it defined or described what a "window selection" is. This new terminology (and perhaps a new concept?) needs to be explained to Emacs users. (emacs) `Cut/Paste Other App': This node has become _much_ more complicated, and much less clear. It is not clear which of the things (all of them? any of them?) discussed in this node are for an X window system only. This needs to be clarified. Distinguish statements that are true for Emacs across platforms from statements that are specific to particular platforms - in particular but not only, X Window. Variables and such that have no meaning or effect on some platforms should be pointed out wrt this behavior. For example, the description of `select-active-regions' makes it sound like it has no effect on a system, such as MS Windows, that has no concept of a primary selection. If that is so, then say so. In general, this content needs cleanup, clarification, and probably some reorganization. The node should cover _Emacs_, not just Emacs on X Window. It should say everything that users need to know about cutting and pasting between applications and Emacs. And it (or some other node) should cover pasting between Emacs sessions, to the extent that this is not covered under the category of "other app". Does another Emacs session act just like some other, non-Emacs app in all respects wrt transferring text? If not, what are the differences? Does it matter which Emacs versions the Emacs sessions manifest? If so, explain. Also, the concepts of "pasting" and "yanking" need to be compared and contrasted. Sometimes Emacs doc seems to treat them as the same; sometimes as different. This just confuses users, especially if there is no section that covers the relation between the two explicitly. Likewise, cutting and killing. Finally, there is a disconnect between the name of node `Cut and Paste' and its title, "Killing and Yanking on Graphical Displays". This mess was introduced in Emacs 22. Perhaps back then we were just attempting to be friendlier to newbies (?), passing killing off as cutting, and yanking as pasting. But the job was done haphazardly (hence the title disconnect), and now the result is confusion - especially since there now is a significant difference in behavior between the two ways of removing and inserting text. Cleanup is needed. In GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1 (i386-mingw-nt5.1.2600) of 2010-12-20 on 3249CTO Windowing system distributor `Microsoft Corp.', version 5.1.2600 configured using `configure --with-gcc (4.4) --no-opt --cflags -Ic:/imagesupport/include'