From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Paul Eggert Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: CHECK_STRUCTS/dmpstruct.h mechanism is broken. Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2019 11:31:36 -0700 Organization: UCLA Computer Science Department Message-ID: <671ba8dd-894b-5698-d162-8901b1098b9a@cs.ucla.edu> References: <20190228202146.GC4686@ACM> <20190228205955.GD4686@ACM> <20190410162203.GA4009@ACM> <9809d5ce-c1c4-48e9-6dac-489431b34067@cs.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="211231"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1 To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 11 20:32:47 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1hEeVD-000sqG-0o for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 20:32:47 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:53289 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hEeVB-0008GI-VH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 14:32:45 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:39967) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hEeUR-0008G0-Ua for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 14:32:02 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hEeUM-00047L-8U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 14:31:59 -0400 Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([131.179.128.68]:38940) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1hEeUH-0003zr-8t for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 14:31:51 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C03D1616D9 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 11:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id Zuk6bzFSrZZ9 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 11:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 797D31616D1 for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 11:31:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Original-Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id hwJou1em87Dm for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 11:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU (Penguin.CS.UCLA.EDU [131.179.64.200]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D21A16157C for ; Thu, 11 Apr 2019 11:31:36 -0700 (PDT) Openpgp: preference=signencrypt Autocrypt: addr=eggert@cs.ucla.edu; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBEyAcmQBEADAAyH2xoTu7ppG5D3a8FMZEon74dCvc4+q1XA2J2tBy2pwaTqfhpxxdGA9 Jj50UJ3PD4bSUEgN8tLZ0san47l5XTAFLi2456ciSl5m8sKaHlGdt9XmAAtmXqeZVIYX/UFS 96fDzf4xhEmm/y7LbYEPQdUdxu47xA5KhTYp5bltF3WYDz1Ygd7gx07Auwp7iw7eNvnoDTAl KAl8KYDZzbDNCQGEbpY3efZIvPdeI+FWQN4W+kghy+P6au6PrIIhYraeua7XDdb2LS1en3Ss mE3QjqfRqI/A2ue8JMwsvXe/WK38Ezs6x74iTaqI3AFH6ilAhDqpMnd/msSESNFt76DiO1ZK QMr9amVPknjfPmJISqdhgB1DlEdw34sROf6V8mZw0xfqT6PKE46LcFefzs0kbg4GORf8vjG2 Sf1tk5eU8MBiyN/bZ03bKNjNYMpODDQQwuP84kYLkX2wBxxMAhBxwbDVZudzxDZJ1C2VXujC OJVxq2kljBM9ETYuUGqd75AW2LXrLw6+MuIsHFAYAgRr7+KcwDgBAfwhPBYX34nSSiHlmLC+ KaHLeCLF5ZI2vKm3HEeCTtlOg7xZEONgwzL+fdKo+D6SoC8RRxJKs8a3sVfI4t6CnrQzvJbB n6gxdgCu5i29J1QCYrCYvql2UyFPAK+do99/1jOXT4m2836j1wARAQABzSBQYXVsIEVnZ2Vy dCA8ZWdnZXJ0QGNzLnVjbGEuZWR1PsLBfgQTAQIAKAUCTIByZAIbAwUJEswDAAYLCQgHAwIG FQgCCQoLBBYCAwECH In-Reply-To: Content-Language: en-US X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 131.179.128.68 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:235299 Archived-At: On 4/11/19 2:35 AM, Robert Pluim wrote: > Much as I dislike Autoconf, what would you have us replace it with? I was thinking of using just standard tools (as per the GNU Coding Standards) along with GNU Make - and, once the Emacs core is built, we can use Emacs itself. Although we started assuming GNU Make in Emacs 25, we haven't been using GNU Make's features fully and some of its features could effectively replace the need for Autoconf. A benefit of this approach would be faster builds. Right now the biggest bottleneck on my system is the time to run 'configure' whenever I make a trivial change to configure.ac or whatever. I *hate* that. Although I looked into other possible approaches (switching to SCons, say) none of them seemed to offer compelling advantages to the more-conservative approach I have in mind. Eric Raymond reported success with this sort of approach when deautoconfiscating giflib and the NTP code base: https://lists.gnu.org/r/bison-patches/2019-02/msg00041.html It'd take some work to do this for Emacs - among other things, Gnulib would need to support building without Autoconf, at least for the Gnulib modules that Emacs uses. But I think it'd be doable.