From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Chad Brown Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Tweaking t-m-m to make room for d-s-m Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:17:58 -0700 Message-ID: <64C7B753-13E7-469E-B6A5-E0B0FEFB253D@mit.edu> References: <87sk7pzqsp.fsf@ambire.localdomain> <33DBCF2DFF71401DB0861E66EC29ED2B@us.oracle.com> <5F1D87251C98412EADC1187ABFCC3E8D@us.oracle.com> <83vdceywc6.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1077) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1269973795 29892 80.91.229.12 (30 Mar 2010 18:29:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 18:29:55 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 30 20:29:50 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NwgCD-0004GH-Iq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 20:29:49 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:35372 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NwgCC-0003KI-Iy for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:29:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1Nwg0s-0002zF-50 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:18:06 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=37654 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Nwg0q-0002wC-RG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:18:05 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nwg0p-0004G3-CT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:18:04 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pw0-f41.google.com ([209.85.160.41]:39368) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Nwg0p-0004Ff-7T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:18:03 -0400 Original-Received: by pwi2 with SMTP id 2so5623958pwi.0 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:18:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:content-type:mime-version :subject:from:in-reply-to:date:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :references:to:x-mailer; bh=/IXhlO07Zkporzri3QaJCLe9qOvQiAF6HE37dbyIuCA=; b=SNPLJkWLEshkfkiwsrGY4tyRikul16leS9TsNUVz07fBaiKckMNd9gkTGK6W3Brx11 YDkajY5nWkeNgdEy+0hP5kE43VV8bmEYIVgwme6neNKrhR4t0dd25EV8HDjuokWKc5Ah xPUWDa70JS7RK7hhYnLA6vIxZcCCiOiLToKLY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer; b=Vh1Kdekz2iWIw2QpS5uxkMTLwcWKnxORw0TVcuZN9/zxuLMPP/txS+9gAmb6W6Icu4 Ff8YUhS5+7szs71jJxVVLWYpJxTksxMBj5mq/MzZL1VfipA3LRccDJMrCa8b7k2PaJpi gFkfSZVEVl+uojRP4qO4jOZi9KJzMxnsPk6Yw= Original-Received: by 10.115.28.1 with SMTP id f1mr485089waj.181.1269973080902; Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:18:00 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from [10.0.1.6] (c-98-247-149-76.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [98.247.149.76]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 21sm5114573pzk.12.2010.03.30.11.17.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Tue, 30 Mar 2010 11:18:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83vdceywc6.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1077) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 14:29:33 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:122933 Archived-At: >>> - It is not as easy to type for `undo' if your are used to using = C-z for that. >>>=20 >>> C-z has never been an undo command in Emacs >>> so Emacs users are not used to typing C-z for that. >>=20 >> That conclusion is not valid. >>=20 >> I think most Emacs users are today at least using also a web browser >> where C-z means undo while editing. >=20 > Which doesn't necessarily mean they want it in Emacs. At least for > me, C-z scrolls the window by one line: >=20 > (global-set-key "\C-z" (function (lambda () (interactive) (scroll-up = 1)))) >=20 > I use this in Emacs by far more often than `undo'. Can we at least agree that default keybindings are more likely intended for new users than for dedicated emacs hackers? =20 Personally, I bind control-z to a keymap of customized = bindings/functions, but that doesn't mean that I don't see at least *some* value in making = it match typical keybindings in basically every OS/UI currently used. I would suggest that this change is too deep for an emacs 23 point = release, though. If we can get a workable `upgrade system' (currently being discussed in another thread) for dealing with new features in place for emacs 24, that seems like a better time to consider defaults like CUA bindings, don't you think? *Chad=