From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Ken Raeburn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs and Guile (was: GSoC projects related to Emacs) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:34:08 -0400 Message-ID: <64486831-2D4A-4AAF-9026-277F6198EC8B@raeburn.org> References: <87k41ofsl8.fsf@gnu.org> <87d37p1o7u.fsf@gmail.com> <83ehrw6p26.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1334224231 29164 80.91.229.3 (12 Apr 2012 09:50:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2012 09:50:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Emacs Dev To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Apr 12 11:50:30 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SIGfc-0006hH-IZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2012 11:50:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59872 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SIGQF-00052w-EN for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:34:35 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45915) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SIGQ7-00052l-FL for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:34:33 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SIGPx-0005vg-1T for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:34:27 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-qc0-f169.google.com ([209.85.216.169]:37577) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SIGPw-0005sz-TI for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2012 05:34:16 -0400 Original-Received: by qcsd16 with SMTP id d16so1280075qcs.0 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2012 02:34:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=subject:mime-version:content-type:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to:x-mailer :x-gm-message-state; bh=e9CAm0xluo3EjD+iBHwW3UBWxsz8MLiVzg5Q4aSTLxo=; b=OOeQBJsOwxFfOp4zXeXwcYH7O9REcwL1FWt5IZFCUOhxg4NHIUdtFh2oAbapUUyx0O W+MIkdEPdxsnZmCb+Y+pVvTsAAEey/6UODWk9Yuz5fhE/4pq/0g7iuQE+QCWnN+9SdH4 ZSMsfYHRt4ynqbFJbGC7hA9avsc5B1n7zwLrafe7V3ggJnHsigymgPVB3Nopzxw8/Dc0 k9g+WFob69RjQBMwkI/miSxYP+u4PpRhvoArimkmbvj2DMa3BaWoR+y5RtIXBPudneGC mf0QoKBKLef6fFsyCnBHeqNKSMqeM7C/1PttPXUxkotWCg/iMnGrHSMHFabbaFuVM+oa YA2Q== Original-Received: by 10.224.9.141 with SMTP id l13mr2801053qal.52.1334223253945; Thu, 12 Apr 2012 02:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from squish.raeburn.org (c-66-31-202-94.hsd1.ma.comcast.net. [66.31.202.94]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gw8sm10796180qab.7.2012.04.12.02.34.12 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 12 Apr 2012 02:34:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <83ehrw6p26.fsf@gnu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk43XYl3w1sBbxYZB3ET1mS5CbJC2pgD4oj6ijfUTnnNHkqjyDUViL7d7bpQVhHa9/z8USW X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.216.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:149607 Archived-At: On Apr 10, 2012, at 03:09, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Leo >> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2012 11:36:05 +0800 >>=20 >> On 2012-04-10 06:28 +0800, Bastien wrote: >>> ,----[ Guile-Emacs ] >>> |=20 >>> | Use libguile as the basis for Emacs's Lisp implementation and = begin >>> | replacing the Elisp interpreter with Guile >>> |=20 >>> | = http://www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposal/review/google/gsoc2012/bpt/230= 02 >>> `---- >>=20 >> I am looking forward to this ;) >=20 > I don't. >=20 > FWIW, my (admittedly short) experience with Guile is that it is not > reliable or stable on anything but GNU/Linux, and even there it has > much to catch up. It has a lot to gain in terms of portability before > it can be considered seriously as an alternative to ELisp, or even its > sibling on equal rights. My position (when I had time to work on Guilemacs) was always that the = work should be done to make this plugging together *possible*, and then = we should see where things stand. Emacs would bring a *huge* audience = to Guile, for better or worse, and would possibly shine lights on = various areas where Guile might not have the support that a (certain, = high-profile) real-world application with particular demands might need. = That doesn't mean it can't be added=85 though, that circles back to = concerns the maturity and stability of Guile and its interfaces. I = don't think I ever saw it as less than a multi-year project overall = (even assuming I kept working on the Emacs bits and Guile folks worked = on the related Guile aspects all that time). Which is why I also = figured on aiming for an Emacs code base that could be configured to use = Guile or to run standalone as a transitional phase -- something that = could be at least partly kept merged with upstream Emacs to keep the = divergence manageable. I also figured getting Guile to actually do ELisp interpretation would = come late if at all, but some pretty exciting work has been done in that = area already. I do think something can be gotten up and running in a few months time. = I did it, many years ago, though it was pretty hackish and limped more = than it ran, but I identified a few bits of low-level abstraction that = would help in the process and pushed them into the Emacs source base. = So hopefully the second time around it's a little easier. But that's = only the start of getting some possible future release of Emacs to be = Guile-based. There's portability, performance, packaging and = installation, transition issues, figuring out how to handle the new = Guile features (threads!), licensing arguments perhaps -- and, of = course, convincing various people on this list that maybe it's an okay = idea after all. :-) In any case, I'm excited to see how this project goes. Ken=