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From: Dmitry Gutov <dmitry@gutov.dev>
To: Alan Mackenzie <acm@muc.de>
Cc: Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com>,
	Stefan Monnier <monnier@iro.umontreal.ca>,
	Daniel Colascione <dancol@dancol.org>,
	emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove
Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2024 04:01:37 +0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <644140db-9ad5-44b5-a598-e7d2edb7d42b@gutov.dev> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ZoMepiIvxEYOF4EV@ACM>

Hi Alan,

On 02/07/2024 00:24, Alan Mackenzie wrote:

>> People screaming "backward compatibility" for each and every reason can
>> indeed be a problem.
> 
> Yes, but it's a difficult problem.  I would be screaming if somebody
> suggested removing the bindings C-o or C-M-o, for example.  I use these
> all the time.  But if I were the only user of them, it would be
> difficult to argue for their retention in the default key map.

An addition of a binding should pose less immediate danger than a 
removal of one, shouldn't it?

And okay, we might want to take care in adding bindings because later it 
would be hard to remove. But we are unlikely to be in 100% agreement for 
every such addition. It seems impossible to make every new addition 
"ideal" in that sense.

> On the other hand, C-x w h (highlight-regexp) already has a "more
> modern" binding M-s h r, so although I wouldn't be enthused about the
> removal of C-x w h, I wouldn't object to it either.

That's how I tend to think about this as well.

>> We should be able to change default key bindings more freely than we do now.
> 
> Yes, but...  Every time we do this, we're upsetting _sombody_'s work
> flow.  I don't see any way of getting this increased freedom to change.

Somebody mentioned telemetry in this thread earlier, apparently it was 
not received well. But some consistent way of polling users might help. 
Sometime later when we establish one.



  parent reply	other threads:[~2024-07-02  1:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 249+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-08-21 19:10 Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Daniel Colascione
2021-08-21 19:23 ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-21 19:27   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-08-21 19:36     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-22  8:35       ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-21 19:42   ` Clément Pit-Claudel
2021-08-25 13:12     ` Kaushal Modi
2021-08-21 20:20   ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22  6:02     ` Eli Zaretskii
2021-08-22  8:32       ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22 13:43         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2021-08-22  0:43   ` Phil Sainty
2021-08-22  5:13   ` Teemu Likonen
2021-08-22  9:22     ` Teemu Likonen
2021-08-21 19:26 ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22  8:37 ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-22 14:05   ` Arthur Miller
2021-08-22 19:16   ` Daniel Colascione
2021-08-22 17:52 ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-22 22:01   ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2021-08-23  5:16     ` Bozhidar Batsov
2021-08-24 21:33       ` Stefan Monnier
2021-08-25  3:42       ` Richard Stallman
2024-06-21 19:03   ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-21 20:39     ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 10:05       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-23 11:14         ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 12:05           ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-23 12:30             ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 13:29               ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-23 13:34                 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 13:45                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 20:55                   ` chad
2024-06-23 16:32               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 12:57             ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 13:40               ` Po Lu
2024-06-23 13:45                 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 14:15                   ` Po Lu
2024-06-23 14:22                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-24  7:41                       ` Gregor Zattler
2024-06-24 12:13                         ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-24 12:41                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-24 15:09                           ` Gregor Zattler
2024-06-24 15:36                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-25  1:41                               ` Joel Reicher
2024-06-24 15:57                       ` Petteri Hintsanen
2024-06-25 21:26                       ` Jeremy Bryant
2024-06-26 11:23                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 11:44                           ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 13:19                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 13:57                               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 15:38                                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 15:49                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-28 19:47                                 ` Hovav Shacham
2024-06-28 20:45                                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-29  7:02                                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01  1:58                                   ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-26 13:22                             ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-26 13:51                               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 14:13                                 ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 14:21                                   ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 15:15                                     ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 15:27                                       ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-26 15:42                                       ` Colin Baxter
2024-06-26 16:00                                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 14:41                                   ` Joel Reicher
2024-06-26 15:43                                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-26 14:49                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-26 17:02                                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-26 14:27                               ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-26 15:14                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-26 13:53                             ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 14:18                               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-26 14:48                                 ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 14:27                               ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-26 14:51                                 ` Po Lu
2024-06-26 15:01                                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-27 15:35                                 ` Augusto Stoffel
2024-06-26 17:02                               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-02  6:28                       ` Visuwesh
2024-06-23 14:28                     ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 14:37                       ` Po Lu
2024-06-23 14:45                         ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-24 10:35                       ` Joel Reicher
2024-06-23 16:32                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 13:48                 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 14:14                   ` Telemetry, opt-in,opt-out [was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove] tomas
2024-06-23 14:18                     ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 15:23                       ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 15:34                         ` tomas
2024-06-23 19:46                     ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-23 21:12                       ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-25 14:28                         ` [External] : Re: Telemetry, opt-in, opt-out " Madhu
2024-06-25 17:19                           ` Drew Adams
2024-06-25 23:03                           ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide via Emacs development discussions.
2024-06-28  4:02                           ` Richard Stallman
2024-06-28  5:28                       ` Telemetry, opt-in,opt-out " Ihor Radchenko
2024-06-28  6:33                         ` tomas
2024-06-23 14:25                   ` Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Po Lu
2024-06-23 14:38                     ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 15:24                 ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 15:36                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 16:32                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 19:10                 ` Gregor Zattler
2024-06-23 13:59               ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-23 14:06                 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 16:32               ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 18:44         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 18:51           ` Daniel Colascione
2024-06-23 19:26             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 19:34               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-23 19:55                 ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-23 21:12                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 20:07               ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-06-23 21:12                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-23 21:09               ` Drew Adams
2024-06-23 19:52           ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-23 20:07             ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-06-23 20:23             ` Stefan Kangas
2024-06-23 21:12             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-24  2:28             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-24 10:41               ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-06-24 11:45                 ` Po Lu
2024-06-25  2:26                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-24  3:29       ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-06-24  4:23         ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-06-24  7:18           ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-06-24 14:46             ` Drew Adams
2024-06-24  6:32         ` Juri Linkov
2024-06-26 15:48       ` Stefan Monnier
2024-06-26 20:38         ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-06-27  5:16           ` Attitude (was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove) Eli Zaretskii
2024-06-27 12:19             ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01  1:29         ` Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Stefan Kangas
2024-07-01 10:07           ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 10:47             ` Po Lu
2024-07-01 11:12               ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-01 13:20                 ` Po Lu
2024-07-01 18:21                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02  0:52                     ` Po Lu
2024-07-01 11:25             ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-01 13:28               ` Po Lu
2024-07-01 13:34                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-01 19:05                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-01 21:24               ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 22:07                 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02  1:00                   ` Po Lu
2024-07-02  3:26                     ` C-o (was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove) Stefan Monnier
2024-07-02  4:34                       ` C-o Po Lu
2024-07-02  5:59                       ` C-o Gerd Möllmann
2024-07-02  6:23                       ` C-o Visuwesh
2024-07-02 12:51                       ` C-o Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 13:06                         ` C-o Po Lu
2024-07-02 13:39                           ` C-o Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 14:02                             ` C-o Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-03  9:24                             ` C-o Po Lu
2024-07-03 11:33                               ` C-o Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-03 12:15                                 ` C-o Po Lu
2024-07-02 14:02                       ` C-o T.V Raman
2024-07-02 15:36                         ` C-o Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-02 22:27                       ` C-o Michael Heerdegen via Emacs development discussions.
2024-07-02 22:31                       ` C-o (was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove) Stefan Kangas
2024-07-02 22:44                       ` C-o Jeremy Bryant
2024-07-03 10:07                       ` C-o (was: Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove) Per Starbäck
2024-07-03 12:48                         ` C-o Howard Melman
2024-07-03 16:24                           ` C-o Yuri Khan
2024-07-03 16:32                             ` C-o Howard Melman
2024-07-05  4:14                               ` C-o Richard Stallman
2024-07-05  4:28                                 ` C-o Howard Melman
2024-07-03 19:13                           ` C-o Bob Rogers
2024-07-02  7:28                   ` Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Philip Kaludercic
2024-07-02 11:41                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02  1:01                 ` Dmitry Gutov [this message]
2024-07-02  1:51                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-02  2:20                     ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02  3:47                       ` Drew Adams
2024-07-02 22:41                   ` Stefan Kangas
2024-07-02  1:47                 ` [External] : " Drew Adams
     [not found]                 ` <87h6d87op5.fsf@dancol.org>
2024-07-02 13:08                   ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 14:43             ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-01 18:12               ` [External] : Re: Proposal: new default bindings for windmove. [Working minor mode] Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-01 18:18                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-04  2:26             ` Proposal: new default bindings for winner and windmove Richard Stallman
2024-07-01 23:18           ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02  1:02             ` Po Lu via Emacs development discussions.
2024-07-02  2:03               ` Howard Melman
2024-07-02 12:21                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02  3:29               ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-02  4:14                 ` Po Lu
2024-07-02 13:04                   ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-02 13:36                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 14:20                       ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-02 14:43                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 12:18               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 12:52                 ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 13:34                   ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 13:53                     ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 14:15                       ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 14:41                         ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 15:00                           ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 22:28                 ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-03  3:14                   ` Hovav Shacham
2024-07-02  6:50             ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02  8:07               ` Yuri Khan
2024-07-02 16:27                 ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 11:50               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 16:32                 ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 16:47                   ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 12:46               ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 13:31               ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-02 18:03               ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 18:07                 ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-02 18:29                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 18:30                 ` Yuri Khan
2024-07-02 20:00                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 21:15                     ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-02 22:30                       ` Drew Adams
2024-07-03 11:56                     ` Yuri Khan
2024-07-03 13:53                       ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-03 14:14                         ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-03 16:15                         ` Yuri Khan
2024-07-03 16:26                           ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-03 22:12                             ` John ff
2024-07-02 18:34                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-02 19:08                   ` [External] : " Drew Adams
2024-07-02 19:53                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 20:12                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-02 21:13                       ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-03  6:21                         ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 21:54                       ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 18:37                 ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-02 20:03                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-03  6:24                     ` Juri Linkov
2024-07-03 13:48                       ` Stefan Monnier
2024-07-03  6:56                 ` Visuwesh
2024-07-02  7:08             ` Philip Kaludercic
2024-07-02 11:46               ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 13:31                 ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-02 13:52                   ` Dmitry Gutov
2024-07-02 13:55                   ` Daniel Colascione
2024-07-02 14:42                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2024-07-02 15:36                     ` Alfred M. Szmidt
2024-07-02 11:57             ` Eli Zaretskii
2024-07-02 23:20             ` Stefan Kangas
2024-07-03  1:19             ` Liu Hui
2024-06-23  6:59     ` Juri Linkov
2021-08-22 18:58 ` Dmitry Gutov
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2021-08-22  7:37 Boruch Baum
2024-07-02 16:36 Pedro Andres Aranda Gutierrez

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