From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alexandre Garreau Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: no to war in Ukraine Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 08:49:18 +0100 Message-ID: <6365757.nJ7RtekbVj@galex-713.eu> References: <87ee3p4xn4.fsf@zoho.eu> <87tucl18rp.fsf@zoho.eu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="39698"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Feb 27 08:51:58 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nOELV-000ABY-TZ for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 08:51:57 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:53816 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOELU-0004zy-D1 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 02:51:56 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46686) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOEJB-0004za-If for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 02:49:33 -0500 Original-Received: from galex-713.eu ([89.234.186.82]:46094) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nOEJ9-0003bz-Lk for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 02:49:33 -0500 Original-Received: from gal by galex-713.eu with local (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1nOEIw-00C8by-I2 for help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 08:49:18 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87tucl18rp.fsf@zoho.eu> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=89.234.186.82; envelope-from=galex-713@galex-713.eu; helo=galex-713.eu X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "help-gnu-emacs" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.help:136236 Archived-At: Le diman=C4=89o, 27-a de februaro 2022, 0-a horo kaj 57:14 CET Emanuel Berg= via Users list for=20 the GNU Emacs text editor a =C3=A9crit : > Emacs history will rather tell old-school operation with > destabilization then force ... BLOODSHED i don=E2=80=99t get what you are talking about in that sentence, what is ol= dschool about, what=20 destabilization are you talking about, etc. > FOSS people saying somewhere no to war? Good question, but wrongly phrased, because it=E2=80=99s ambiguous, and in = these time ambiguity=20 is no good, and can only go in the favor of whatever position is dominant a= t a given place. People, especially the few most attained by putin=E2=80=99s propaganda, cou= ld believe you are on=20 russian side, and ukraine or nato is responsible for the war, so they have = to =C2=ABstop=C2=BB=20 something for it to cease. > I say: it's wrong. Idk whether that=E2=80=99s really useful, afais, most of the planet condemn= the agression of putin=20 against ukraine, russians first. That includes almost all countries (with = noone, not even=20 iran and china actually doing anything concrete in his favor), consensus am= ong most=20 populations, and almost all russian cities. The only exceptions I saw are = some out of reality=20 indians with misplaced skeptikism, and extremely far right wing ppl (mostly= neonazis), but=20 they=E2=80=99re a minority. Given this is not the first bordering country that joins nato, that no coun= try supports him,=20 that he=E2=80=99s gonna loose the power he won through oil (by betrailing o= pep), gas blackmailing=20 (by successfully corrupting europe out of nuclear and into more gas despite= global heating=20 urgency), to me and most ppl I know, he just got senile and the few years h= e spent in his=20 bunker exageratedly because of covid worsened the thing. Idk then if anyth= ing rational=20 (like condamnation) can help. I think the only thing that can help ukraine rn is direct material or even = military support=20 (which for some reason otan still didn=E2=80=99t gave afaiu), economical sa= nctions will hurt russians=20 more than putin and his thugs. Given that, I take that in whatever circumstances, it=E2=80=99s reasonable = to expect everybody=20 already agrees on supporting ukraine. To the point putting their flag anyw= here will be=20 taken as a symbol of freedom and antimilitarism more than the opposite, or = even than any=20 nationalism. On the other hand, experience have shown that there may, or will, be some s= mall mislead,=20 trollish, minority that will be proputin, start disagreeing by spreading mi= splaced skepticism,=20 asymetric neutrality, etc. and that most of the people will react =E2=80=99= till (useless) exhaustion,=20 not realizing it=E2=80=99s only a minority, that convinces nobody, and wron= gfully end up believing=20 there=E2=80=99s some =C2=ABhalf and half=C2=BB division of opinions and sid= es=E2=80=A6 which is false. So I propose to abandon the topic, unless some webmasters or maintainers ha= ve desire to=20 follow the consensual and comforting trend of putting their flag anywhere i= n sign of=20 support. That=E2=80=99d be in line with our ideas of freedom.