From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Andrew W. Nosenko" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: line-move-visual never set to nil? Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 10:43:14 +0300 Message-ID: <6161f3180807290043l2b0cc1as85a338204687f183@mail.gmail.com> References: <18571.25125.311010.324079@gargle.gargle.HOWL> <87od4k1nj5.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <1F7E32D0-7C19-4950-94DB-F6CD33A56EB0@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1217317434 9187 80.91.229.12 (29 Jul 2008 07:43:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2008 07:43:54 +0000 (UTC) Cc: David Reitter , Chong Yidong , emacs-devel@gnu.org, raman@users.sourceforge.net To: "Stefan Monnier" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Jul 29 09:44:42 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1KNjsp-0000iI-Bv for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 09:44:35 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54911 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KNjrv-0005z0-9i for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:43:39 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KNjra-0005ru-BP for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:43:18 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1KNjrY-0005rW-SH for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:43:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=45767 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1KNjrY-0005rT-KN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:43:16 -0400 Original-Received: from rv-out-0708.google.com ([209.85.198.240]:14126) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1KNjrY-00022g-7j for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:43:16 -0400 Original-Received: by rv-out-0708.google.com with SMTP id k29so4439146rvb.6 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:43:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to :subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=9u9RlunjZ+OA2xAO9Nt3gnRY35fDaNo4cUo7t7uYmvE=; b=DclYcWSslaaKRQJi8ynwtqCKJuIX07oz0wTQaaiyp9LjwI8YeWgVOh1uD9ez6ESFFi BglqZce5oGnnokop2AJhUfoSAnIqcDPwtoLkqZIDDJWEjIfZaEPNv/KN9duwqVve12j4 5XZyF5bh9n0ZKoAql30L4JPnQ9OyAeC+Q3CDk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition :references; b=XQG5Pwk3MSsdgKnY1G/MYaCQljUFLwpj859fftYcHC6nFSNduD2Wmdl/id5IB/WzS6 uJS+cgu/a3ZkV2jdjDbFwEM+HaoWdvvVX8QqixwUa8oIwb5iThkZ7kPZmIMruebjRl1g sltUXKPXTUXVWJ+mWwXCiaS3GMpoA8duFVqUA= Original-Received: by 10.140.126.14 with SMTP id y14mr2840768rvc.96.1217317394756; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: by 10.141.27.8 with HTTP; Tue, 29 Jul 2008 00:43:14 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: Content-Disposition: inline X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:101674 Archived-At: On Sun, Jul 27, 2008 at 11:59 PM, Stefan Monnier wrote: >>> It's true, though, that this behavior could be confusing, especially for >>> longtime users of Emacs. So maybe we ought to make line-move-visual >>> default to nil, as before, and leave it to advanced users to change it >>> to t for their own usage. > > That's not my experience. line-move has been doing "funny" things for > a while now and nobody really complained about it (all the complaints > I've seen were of the other sort, which were pushing towards what we > now have when we set line-move-visual to t). Just because either too lazy (like me) and hope that usual behavior will be restored after trying and playing fith this feature, or just don't know (because not so many people use CVS emacs), or in hope that some convenient workaround will be made for achieve the best of two sides. The biggest problem with "visual" line motion as it is currently is even not in the need of re-learning. The biggest is that current defaults are beaks keybord macro. Just try to record some macro that uses up/down key having wrapped lines, change width of the window/frame and enjoy. :-( Introducing of the commands for movement over phisical lines (as proposed for M-[ and M-], or where they will be bound finally) could help, but... But they are available only for word-wrapping mode, while up/down keys behavior "screwed" in all modes :-( Sorry, may be indeed wes too lazy and this message should be written early, but better do it latter than never... -- Andrew W. Nosenko