From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Why was `transient-mark-mode' turned off for `delete-selection-mode'? Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 13:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <60d75d3a-d04c-4394-800b-60b65fafdb11@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1408997303 12093 80.91.229.3 (25 Aug 2014 20:08:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:08:23 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Aug 25 22:08:17 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XM0Yn-0007bj-8U for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 22:08:13 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50384 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XM0Ym-0005zp-1s for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:08:12 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:59931) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XM0YT-0005zj-5Q for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:08:00 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XM0YL-0007jn-Aw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:07:53 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:27431) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XM0YL-0007jd-4c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:07:45 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet21.oracle.com (acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id s7PK7h30009918 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:07:43 GMT Original-Received: from aserz7022.oracle.com (aserz7022.oracle.com [141.146.126.231]) by acsinet21.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s7PK7fLu001973 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:07:43 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0019.oracle.com (abhmp0019.oracle.com [141.146.116.25]) by aserz7022.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id s7PK7fXH018166 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:07:41 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.8.2 (807160) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet21.oracle.com [141.146.126.237] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:173828 Archived-At: I came across this item in NEWS: ** Delete Selection mode can now be used without Transient Mark mode. "Can now be"? That sounds positive, as if we are adding some new possibility that is useful. Are we? Why would we do this - what is the use case? Why should `delete-selection-mode' no longer enable transient-mark-mode'? Have we had requests from users who turn off `transient-mark-mode', asking to be able to use `delete-selection-mode' without seeing the selection? I've searched a bit for a discussion about this, in emacs-devel and in the bug list, but I didn't find anything related. I searched around the time of the change, which was apparently made on 2013-12-11, with this commit: http://bzr.savannah.gnu.org/lh/emacs/trunk/revision/115459 Stefan Monnier2013-12-11 14:42:34 Revision ID: monnier@iro.umontreal.ca-20131211144234-evm5nwt04uoggorp * lisp/delsel.el (delete-selection-mode): Don't enable transient-mark-mode. (delete-selection-helper): Make sure yank starts at the top of the deleted region. (minibuffer-keyboard-quit): Use region-active-p. So far, this change doesn't sound like a very good idea to me, but I would like to know more about it, in particular the rationale for it. =20 Delete selection mode has always been about providing similar delete/replace-the-selection behavior to what is prevalent outside Emacs. Why would we now divorce this behavior from highlighting of the selection?