From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Hadron Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: Why emacs have not native language menu Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:36:27 +0200 Organization: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark Message-ID: <5rejivs2w4.fsf@googlemail.com> References: <46A49912.9030203@luxdo.jp> <877ioqdoq9.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <87hcnuc6hz.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <878x95dhne.fsf@voyager.informatimago.com> <52sl7dopel.fsf@googlemail.com> <87vec84075.fsf@kobe.laptop> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1185460837 14212 80.91.229.12 (26 Jul 2007 14:40:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:40:37 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jul 26 16:40:35 2007 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1IE4W0-0000O7-B5 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:40:32 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4Vz-00025C-La for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:40:31 -0400 Original-Path: shelby.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help Original-Lines: 40 Original-X-Trace: individual.net AolIrLm6BRe+VUmfvRJA5g6K2VCjS4oxLzNNAaGp5QiYQaRMPN X-Orig-Path: news.individual.net!news Cancel-Lock: sha1:BDOl2eKlBPPGSTzsadh358mvA70= sha1:cqKnH73fWIM3PsBklJ8Yj0TnQVY= X-Face: 2h#||Cd#d%F*NCm59[_6/{1a@jy%; |j>{D~4^gKg(^i%7j0IK?+,/GmW&:CD5fEKb_! Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAAHlBMVEUBAQFeX18kItArui3a MTKtzavJybrGxcW4sbqgoJEo32BqAAAACXBIWXMAAABIAAAASABGyWs+AAAB30lEQVQ4y83UMW/T QBTA8f9ZuKRlyPNUBgRHpO58g5aBPQsrMpWoRJeSCZgIW1lQmRBhsTohMZCZKWKvxAco7VEJkFAl vxQBhTR+DIkTp8AMN1i6+/ne3bPvXcRfWvR/QPJsc/OJ/A7n7+5p/v3e1mlYTHOMXD/ILNRSAymw 6LZUwbVdXUQjB8XNKizmBFXEEOakAhtII1FUUGhNoebOdTqZgb5v7Oi3KWxpBj8TsMOXHASZQL4Q p2t0EQUGV1slOM34mgFa0IjpHpdwFpCUFIBm86QooQ7ueUaGQvSqi0oZCgyA+hVOHEh7DBukg9TA 0cUPVmJ0MkPJBqSGJyBWgoN49H1cRKBrZYJmyBrxLRUEiL26cSgVHV5v5qr0G0tnLiZJuSs0HDmc GCbDZTOzMXjxGNBHFL1c+R86eoxWVVwZ6iEAsrvzRoGAlQkqYfT2BSXBT0M5fOHy3UDxLgGIysyP IUJCBOwjuFo5wzxg4D3LIFaf7KoFUuBDYBt9S3sCP0A/Aisg+AWdgGUI7AGpitQr5+qz9C+lET1c oUd3KmCPbdgrQpjbj9zTmUN96KMlPDdw8zoDtu7t2upqL8w/OFUftr5dP/jiXpfj04qyT/c7j17k f6hByPNK55/eDL8Avva8YfF9tMEAAAAaelRYdEpQRUctQ29sb3JzcGFjZQAAeNozAgAAMwAzERZ+ YwAAACp6VFh0SlBFRy1TYW1wbGluZy1mYWN0b3JzAAB42jOqMNIxrDDUMawwBAARgwLpBsTKKAAA AABJRU5ErkJggg== Original-Xref: shelby.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:150512 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:46092 Archived-At: Giorgos Keramidas writes: > On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:19:14 +0200, Hadron wrote: >>Pascal Bourguignon writes: >>>> No. That is NOT what emacs is. eLisp is the programming >>>> language. Emacs is an infrastructure which supports multiple >>>> applications programmed in elisp. They can be localised. >>> >>> Look, if you asked to localize microemacs or nano, I'd say, no >>> problem go ahead. But emacs is lisp. >> >> We are talking the command names interfaces and help texts - not the >> function names. e.g you dont see "find-file-at-point" in the >> menu. No. You find "Open File" or similar. > > But then you have to write the manual for this localized menu, > and all sorts of problems creep up. For example it is _very_ > easy to explain to an English-speaking person that `M-x find-file > RET path RET' is the same as `menu: File | Open ...', and the > English-speaking person will quickly get used to the term > `find-file'. If you describe in an ISO 8859-7 Greek manual that > the following are equivalent: > > M-x find-file RET διαδρομή RET > μενού: Αρχείο | Άνοιγμα ... > > which are the localized versions, then it's not as easy to > remember that the `random' name `find-file' maps easily to the > Greek text for "Open..." :-( > > While I agree that localization *is* useful, it's also my > understanding that it is not a particularly easy task, nor an > effort that can always create the same mental `mappings' between > menu entries, help text, tooltips, keyboard sequences, etc. > No one suggested it was trivial. But to discount it out of course just because emacs "is eLisp" is a tad silly IMO. Jesus, half the Emacs manual is hard enough to understand in English! :)