From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Xah Lee Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.help Subject: Re: usability problem of emacs describe-mode Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 13:48:51 -0800 (PST) Organization: http://groups.google.com Message-ID: <5e54c151-e887-4c2d-a697-058c7c70efa5@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> References: <76fcf833-ad89-44f2-b227-e18295317ca2@p13g2000yqc.googlegroups.com> <87tz6lvud0.fsf@babel.localdomain> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1235456567 9994 80.91.229.12 (24 Feb 2009 06:22:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 06:22:47 +0000 (UTC) To: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Original-X-From: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 24 07:24:02 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1Lbqi1-0003WR-U7 for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Feb 2009 07:24:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:54398 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Lbqgg-0000aP-RB for geh-help-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Tue, 24 Feb 2009 01:22:39 -0500 Original-Path: news.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Original-Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help,comp.emacs Original-Lines: 61 Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.6.175.142 Original-X-Trace: posting.google.com 1235425731 30775 127.0.0.1 (23 Feb 2009 21:48:51 GMT) Original-X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Original-NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 21:48:51 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.6.175.142; posting-account=bRPKjQoAAACxZsR8_VPXCX27T2YcsyMA User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X 10_4_11; en) AppleWebKit/525.27.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.2.1 Safari/525.27.1, gzip(gfe), gzip(gfe) Original-Xref: news.stanford.edu gnu.emacs.help:166996 comp.emacs:97849 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 01:18:20 -0500 X-BeenThere: help-gnu-emacs@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Users list for the GNU Emacs text editor List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: help-gnu-emacs-bounces+geh-help-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.help:62315 Archived-At: On Feb 23, 11:14 am, Zachary Kline wrote: > Hello, > I think the issue here is one of personal preference. > I for one find the mode help not only useful but essential in many instan= ces, being new to the editor. Sure i find the describe-mode command useful too. Though, i'm describing its usability problems, not contending it is not useful. > As for technical terminology, it is something that one will eventually pi= ck up with time. Yes. But the issue about usability problem. If there is a usability problem, you can't say it can't be picked up eventually. For example, say there's a software with good doc and software B has bad doc. One could say user will eventually understand the bad doc too. I don't see your point. For example, one of the point i mentioned is that weird terminology adds to the readability problem, in conjunction with many other issues. You say that user will pickup terminology eventually. Sure, but how's that effect the criticism? If, for example, term A and B both can be used, while A is easier to understand, and B is hard. Then, i said emacs should adopt A. But, you say =E2=80=9CAs for technical terminology, it is something that one will eventually pick up with time.=E2=80=9D How's that address the issue? Perhaps, you are just saying that you don't see the emacs terminologies as hard to understand or unintuitive as i implied? If so, please do give reasons. > I should also mention that the contents of that buffer depend, in large p= art, on which mode you're currently in. Of course. That's what major mode for. As to minor mode, it depends on the minor mode. I'm not sure what is your point? > All this being said, I'm conservative and don't feel a need to change som= ething that works in my case. vi also works. I'm also conservative. Is there a exact point, about my criticism or suggestion, that you disagree with? and the reason? Do you think, that there are some particular point i pointed out, are incorrect? Or, do you think they are misleading? Or, perhaps you think there are other aspects or perspective that i didn't consider so makes my criticism not a good one? If so, you'll have to give reasons exactly. Thanks for your feedback. Xah =E2=88=91 http://xahlee.org/ =E2=98=84