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From: Drew Adams <drew.adams@oracle.com>
To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name>,
	rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: RE: "whether the global keymap C-x 4 will be replaced by a command,"
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2020 17:00:08 +0000 (UTC)	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <5e0de57e-e0a2-4188-bf7e-1fa00fc1ec6e@default> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87sgdog5b5.fsf@iris.silentflame.com>

> the feedback I got was that it would be better to
> avoid cluttering the function symbol namespace with
> lots of -other-window commands.

My feedback is that I _want_ separate other-window
(and other-frame) commands.  Explicit commands.

But _not_ in some general, apply-to-all-commands (or
all commands that show something in a window or select
a window).

I want such commands only when and where I want them,
and I want them bound to keys only when and where I
want such bindings.  I don't want something to create
such other-* commands willy nilly, automatically.

IOW, I want just what we have now:

. ability for anyone to explicitly define an other-*
  command

. ability for anyone to bind any same-* or other-*
  command to any key in any mode or other context.

. ability for anyone to _not_ have a given same-*
  or other-* command be bound in a given mode or
  context.

In Dired, for example, for some actions I want to
have _only_ a key that reuses the same window.  For
other actions I want to have _only_ a key that uses
another window - or another frame.  And for still
other actions I want to have keys for _both_, or
all 3, possibilities.

To me, it would be a step backward to treat any of
this stuff in some one-size-fits-all, blanket way:
either by automatically creating other-* commands
for everything, or by automatically creating
bindings for them.

Or by automatically creating the equivalent:
providing keys everywhere, for everything, that
provide other-* behavior without creating other-*
commands.  I want only keys that I or some mode
or other context has decided are the most useful
for that particular context.

I have no problem with the supposed "cluttering
[of] the function symbol namespace" from the
existence of separate other-* commands.

(Perhaps that's partly because I use a completion
framework that isn't bothered by the existence of
two commands `foo' and `foo-other-window' etc.)

To me, this "project" of replacing `C-x 4' by a
command is an anti-feature.  (Same for other
prefix keys.)

And again, though I've asked several times now,
I've seen _no_ description of anything useful that
this project aims to provide.  So far, it seems
only like a thought-to-be-clever solution that's
still looking for a problem to solve.

If the problem is _really_ only "cluttering [of]
the function symbol namespace", then that, to me
(just one user) is 100% a non-problem.

And IMO it's certainly not worth tossing out the
beautiful baby of simple prefix-key bindings to
keymaps with the supposedly too-cluttered-namespace
bathwater.

IMO, that bathwater itself is in fact clean &
clear.  It's a mountain stream, not dirty suds.

Just one opinion.



  reply	other threads:[~2020-07-18 17:00 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 45+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <E1juSI3-0005ai-6j@fencepost.gnu.org>
     [not found] ` <83ft9woo68.fsf@gnu.org>
2020-07-13  2:52   ` "whether the global keymap ‘C-x 4’ will be replaced by a command," Richard Stallman
2020-07-13 23:58     ` "whether the global keymap C-x 4 " Juri Linkov
2020-07-14  4:19       ` Drew Adams
2020-07-14  5:55       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-07-14 14:41         ` Drew Adams
2020-07-14 14:48           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-07-14 15:28             ` Drew Adams
2020-07-14 15:35           ` John Yates
2020-07-14 14:51         ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-07-14 15:15           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-07-14 16:29             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-07-15  4:06               ` Stefan Monnier
2020-07-15 14:16                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-07-15 23:54                 ` Juri Linkov
2020-07-16  4:07                   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-07-16 22:57                     ` Juri Linkov
2020-07-17  2:56                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-07-17  0:56                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-07-14 22:27         ` Juri Linkov
2020-07-14 22:55           ` Drew Adams
2020-07-15  4:06           ` Stefan Monnier
2020-07-16  3:21           ` Richard Stallman
2020-07-16 15:05             ` Eli Zaretskii
2020-07-16 23:05             ` Juri Linkov
2020-07-17  2:10               ` Drew Adams
2020-07-18  1:57                 ` Richard Stallman
2020-07-18 16:23                   ` Sean Whitton
2020-07-18 17:00                     ` Drew Adams [this message]
2020-07-19  2:28                     ` Richard Stallman
2020-07-19 15:28                       ` Drew Adams
2020-07-21  0:22                       ` Sean Whitton
2020-07-18  1:54               ` Richard Stallman
2020-07-18 23:21                 ` Juri Linkov
2020-07-19  0:11                   ` Drew Adams
2020-07-19  3:38                   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-07-19 22:07                     ` Juri Linkov
2020-07-20  3:09                       ` Stefan Monnier
2020-07-20 20:50                         ` Juri Linkov
2020-07-20  2:39                   ` Richard Stallman
2020-07-20  3:13                   ` Stefan Monnier
2020-07-15  3:32         ` Richard Stallman
2020-07-19 13:00           ` Barry Fishman
2020-07-19 15:38             ` Drew Adams
2020-07-19 16:20               ` Barry Fishman
2020-07-19 17:45                 ` Drew Adams

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