From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.bugs Subject: bug#14734: 24.3.50; REGRESSION: defadvice broken wrt doc strings (C-h f) Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 07:50:13 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <5c00eebb-f58f-4d6f-a648-d10fbd11d7cf@default> References: <87ppv550s6.fsf@web.de> <309ce668-1d40-4865-b796-d6828f65a8d4@default> <49fae9c3-c59c-4b08-84f0-24dc9935b345@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1373035875 30544 80.91.229.3 (5 Jul 2013 14:51:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2013 14:51:15 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Michael Heerdegen , 14734@debbugs.gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier , Juanma Barranquero Original-X-From: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jul 05 16:51:14 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Uv7Lu-0004Pw-6S for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Jul 2013 16:51:14 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:36819 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Uv7Lt-000709-RQ for geb-bug-gnu-emacs@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Jul 2013 10:51:13 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56134) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Uv7Ll-0006za-SO for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jul 2013 10:51:10 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Uv7Lj-0002PQ-Li for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jul 2013 10:51:05 -0400 Original-Received: from debbugs.gnu.org ([140.186.70.43]:37741) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Uv7Lj-0002PL-HZ for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jul 2013 10:51:03 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-debbugs by debbugs.gnu.org with local (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Uv7Li-0007GW-Pe for bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jul 2013 10:51:03 -0400 X-Loop: help-debbugs@gnu.org Resent-From: Drew Adams Original-Sender: "Debbugs-submit" Resent-CC: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org Resent-Date: Fri, 05 Jul 2013 14:51:02 +0000 Resent-Message-ID: Resent-Sender: help-debbugs@gnu.org X-GNU-PR-Message: followup 14734 X-GNU-PR-Package: emacs X-GNU-PR-Keywords: wontfix Original-Received: via spool by 14734-submit@debbugs.gnu.org id=B14734.137303583427853 (code B ref 14734); Fri, 05 Jul 2013 14:51:02 +0000 Original-Received: (at 14734) by debbugs.gnu.org; 5 Jul 2013 14:50:34 +0000 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:60285 helo=debbugs.gnu.org) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Uv7LF-0007F7-FV for submit@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jul 2013 10:50:33 -0400 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:28802) by debbugs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1Uv7L7-0007ET-8n for 14734@debbugs.gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jul 2013 10:50:28 -0400 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.1) with ESMTP id r65EoIjt031533 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 5 Jul 2013 14:50:19 GMT Original-Received: from userz7021.oracle.com (userz7021.oracle.com [156.151.31.85]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r65EoGxM012409 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 5 Jul 2013 14:50:16 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt104.oracle.com (abhmt104.oracle.com [141.146.116.56]) by userz7021.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id r65EoFh5029887; Fri, 5 Jul 2013 14:50:15 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.7 (607090) [OL 12.0.6668.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-BeenThere: debbugs-submit@debbugs.gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 140.186.70.43 X-BeenThere: bug-gnu-emacs@gnu.org List-Id: "Bug reports for GNU Emacs, the Swiss army knife of text editors" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: bug-gnu-emacs-bounces+geb-bug-gnu-emacs=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.bugs:75948 Archived-At: > > But I also agree with Drew that the current doctrings for adviced > > functions are horrible and a big step backwards for users. >=20 > Patches welcome, The problem is not doc strings but the regression in user interaction. Perhaps that is what Juanma meant: what the user sees via `C-h f'. The patch for that is to revert the changes that caused the regression. There is nothing wrong with providing a new advice mechanism, and a better one is certainly welcome. Thank you for working on that. There is something very wrong, however, if doing that ruins the user interface. Advising functions provides a Lisp feature that is usable by Lisp users. But ALL users make use of `C-h f', and often, and the changes made to facilitate introducing the new advice have (apparently) broken the user experience with `C-h f'. This is a serious regression that deserves to be taken seriously. The code that introduced the regression should be backed out immediately, if fixing it now would be too onerous.